German Shepherd Dog > Show line questions about siegers and lines. (13 replies)
Show line questions about siegers and lines.
by GermanShepherd<3 on 20 November 2010 - 23:36
|Okay, so what are some lines that pass more drive and workability, or others known for their temperament in particular?|
I know Yasko was liked in work, the Hills usually pass great drive, and Zamp are very nice steady temperament. This is from what i have researched..but if anyone could please list me some dogs that were siegers and such..
like for example, what are Kevin, Quantum, Pakros, Dux, Quenn, etc. passing down..
i hope this makes sense..like if you look for puppies with more work drive which would be chose, what about ones with softer, more family like pups?
thanks guys, i really wanna learn this stuff.
by Rik on 21 November 2010 - 00:32
|Curious as to your research on Zamp and character. Can you share.|
by GermanShepherd<3 on 21 November 2010 - 04:03
|Well I actually was told that by a few breeders in our area who had offspring with the latest as great grandson of Zamp but they had some wonderful sons and grandsons as well..they all agreed that the made the steadiest temperament matched with a correct female. they had informed me that they believed he passed down his sweet temperament and character, and were the best suited dogs they had for family homes, whereas the Hills lines they usually placed in homes with more serious work..such as Schutzhund..they said they have bred from a few other lines, but have recently stuck with the Zamp lines, as they sell mostly to great family homes and they believed that they made exceptional pets..now they are not saying that they are not suitable for work or will not have enough drive for Sch but they believe the made great offspring with just enough drive for families..i met the dogs, they were at our park stopping by for a run..they did have a hill's line dog with them as well..IMO i thought i did see a little bit of a difference from just observing them run and play..but of course every dog has their own personality.|
It's a bummer i don't remember who told me all this..as they were only in our area visiting they told me their kennel names, but being german i didn't remember them and couldn't write them down. i am only 16 and i want to learn as much as i possibly can. I can't wait for a future dream pup one day..but I am very fond of the Yasko lines.
What are your thoughts? Which lines do you like and prefer, and why? :) What do they particularly pass down? And how "drivey"?
by Rik on 23 November 2010 - 02:19
|hello GS3, I am fairly novice also to SV dogs and is why I ask my question. I have seen a couple of dogs from N litter Holtkamper See through Zamp that I felt were solid. One was Jingo vom Mahlsdorfer Grund, who I saw get Sch. 1 at a working dog trial and did very well.|
But this is a very limited observation. I also saw Zamp and several of his progeny in Germany.
On this board, there have been 3 s/l dogs that even the most critical do not say poor things about. All 3 are Hill line, 2 through Dux. They are Nexx Hartis Bohemia (Europe), Ork Werther Muhle and Griff Temar (USA).
I think it is also notable that all dogs I mention above are from Sch. 3 bitches. Certainly not a perfect indicator of character, but I feel shows that the breeders of these dogs place some emphasis on character, and not just attempting to "breed up" poor character. Also, I am familiar with a LE dog in my area from Dolli von der Werther - Mühle, the mother of Ork.
You say you "really want to learn this stuff". What is it that you want to learn. How to stand in the front of the ring. This is not so difficult if you learn structure, gait and type. There does not seem to be a high priority placed on character.
Or how to present a dog that the world does not ridicule. I am trying to learn this also. Do you want a "sweet" dog or one you are not ashamed of if a video shows up on the internet.You have to decide this.
As I said, I am also trying to learn. What i have already learned from many years of show, is that it is true that one cannot "serve two masters". If you want gait and type, then the dog must be bred for these traits first. If you want character, then the dog must be bred for this first.
by dogwood on 23 November 2010 - 04:41
|Quote "On this board, there have been 3 s/l dogs that even the most critical do not say poor things about. All 3 are Hill line, 2 through Dux. They are Nexx Hartis Bohemia (Europe), Ork Werther Muhle and Griff Temar (USA). I think it is also notable that all dogs I mention above are from Sch. 3 bitches. Certainly not a perfect indicator of character, but I feel shows that the breeders of these dogs place some emphasis on character, and not just attempting to "breed up" poor character." end Quote I can't speak directly about Nexx or Ork but I do know about Griff, as I'm the owner of both Griff and his mother Ule (we're Canadian). I got Ule when she was about 19 months old and already Sch 1. We worked hard as a team repeating Sch 1, then obtaining Sch 2, Sch 3, the 2008 USA Universal Siegerin title and finally the spot on Team Canada as the alternate at the WUSV Championship. Personal goals, a lot of time and hard work, character, along with a strong support team make a team successful. I got Griff as a seven week old puppy. My personal goals, my time and hard work, his breeding, and my training club i.e.Delta Schutzhund Club, with all the parts put together, hopefully allow us to present a good picture. There are nice showlines out there, but all the pieces have to work together. Griff's father lines go through Hill back to Mutz. The mother line is just as important, if not more so, than the father and Ghandi has proven that he produces very good temperament. Unfortunately, a Sch 3 title does not mean the same thing that it used to mean. You have to look at a lot of other factors beyond the Sch 3. Hope this post makes some sense.|
by Rik on 23 November 2010 - 04:54
|dogwood, thanks for the input. I just felt that these dogs represent what can be accomplished from good breeding and good training. |
Congratulations on your dog, I know you are proud of him. For everyone saying what is not possible, there will always be someone proving that it is.
by Uber Land on 23 November 2010 - 05:05
|I know Ork, seen the dog personally, and whelped a litter from him out of a Ursus linebred bitch, incredible, super high drive pups, one of the females is already sch2 and not 2 yrs old yet. She tore several pairs of my jeans and the entire back out of a shirt the 6 months she was here, lol. I was glad when she went home!|
by Uber Land on 23 November 2010 - 05:06
|Sitasmom has also seen an Ork litter, there's a very high energy, high drive female I believe still on her site looking for a solid working home|
by GermanShepherd<3 on 25 November 2010 - 00:18
Those dogs are beautiful!!!!
Thanks for the responses..very interesting. I agree that it also bases greatly off the mother's line as well. I mean that is why careful breeding is so important..to match the correct female with the correct male..either to add some drive, maybe calm the lines, greater pigment, stronger ears, etc..
What I basically want to learn is things that I cannot learn from books alone..
I know that the time will come soon in a few years when I will be ready to finally get a dream puppy I've been waiting for..I wanted to learn about the dogs in the pedigrees, the males and females, and weaknesses passed, strengths, workablity, etc..
I want to make sure I will get everything I ever wanted and that I know that I have knowledge of what the breeder is talking to me about.
In a dog, I was honestly thinking about Yasko lines. I love those! I would be very active, I am not sure if I would get involved with Sch but I like Agility and Obedience. It interests me and it looks like a lot of fun..I want a GSD who will love to work with me and trust me as his leader. I also love clicker training..and I know how to train many things from working with other people's dogs. So yeah, as for now I just want to know all there is to know..especially like I said things you cannot necessarily find in books.
by seby on 25 November 2010 - 03:01
| I own Hill's daughter. She is everything you can ask for! Bold, very high energy, super drives and great temperament. Although she was never trained in personal protection, she has a lot of civil drive and is the greatest protector you can ask for being a great family member. She sees a difference between home and Schutzhund field.|
A good bred GSD will always be a great family dog regardless of amount of drives.
by Rik on 27 November 2010 - 03:07
|@ GS<3, the only further advice that I can offer you is that your choice of a breeder will be much more important than your choice of a "line".|
You can get good and poor from any line. If you have specific goals for a "future" dog, then identify the breeders who also have those goals.
I think that you will find that the breeders who pursue and achieve a goal with their dogs (and not just selling pups) will be honest with you.
by dogwood on 27 November 2010 - 04:15
|I couldn't agree more with your wise words of wisdom. Taking the time to find a good breeder is time very well spent.|
by missbeeb on 27 November 2010 - 08:34
I don't have anything to add; just wanted to say... what a nice thread (makes a fab change). helpful and positive!
There used to be more like this...........
by GermanShepherd<3 on 27 November 2010 - 22:20
|I agree, the breeder is the one playing the whole part in this. I have talked to a few breeders a few years now, and there is one that I especially have in mind..I mean like you said for example, even Zamp or Yasko son could have a pup with extreme faults, and of course the mother plays a great part in it too. I just think that if you basically want a good dog, the breeder knows the dog best and has to pair the dogs according to how much drive they have, the personalities the have, etc. |
Any more opinions anyone? :)
Any pics of your dogs?
Perhaps a kind tribute to your breeder?
Looking to hear from you guys!