German Shepherd Dog > DOD consider shelter dogs for its security dog programs? (12 replies)
DOD consider shelter dogs for its security dog programs?
by momosgarage on 13 September 2010 - 15:05
|How is this supposed to work? I am not in the business of supplying trained dogs to the DOD, but I have prepared and won jobs with the DOD. I have prepared many proposals, SOQ's, RFQ's and RFP's for the DOD and I don't understand how someone with shelter dogs could compete during the consultant selection process, against an established breeder and training firm. This looks like PR smoke and mirrors to me. Also, there is an address for unsolicited proposal. The government doesn't take unsoliced proposals, you have to register your business and them get scored as you subit proposals for projects one at a time. I can undertand if an established and experienced government contractor wants to supply the occational "rescue" dog with a batch of other dogs, but they make it seem like they will actually take a shelter dog, get them trained and put to them work. Not impossble I guess, but still absurd for the most part. Also how many shelter dogs will be able to actually work and compete with dogs from top working lines and breeding programs? Most are poor bred and incapable of all but the most basic obidience work (CGC, CD, CDX etc) let alone bomb sniffing, security and SAR work.|
by deacon on 13 September 2010 - 15:47
|I have trained and worked PSDs for more than 30 years. I take pound dogs more often than not. If the dog has the capabilities and his health is good what difference should it make? If one life can be saved out of the pound then I am all for it. There was a time when Lackland AFB got all their prospects through donations. I know I had the privilege of working 4 of them through my military career.|
by momosgarage on 13 September 2010 - 15:52
|I didn't say it was impossible. There are always exceptions to the rule and I do understand that in the distant past the dogs were donated. My point is that the selections process for consultants to the federal government has changed so dramtically over the last decade that I don't see how a consultant using shelter dogs can compete, unless in this case the DOD is just taking the dogs directly from the supplier themselves and not paying for them. |
Also are you talking about a Psychiatric Service Dog? Thats not the same as a dog that will be doing DOD work in the line of fire. I was in the military too a long time ago and did some training excercises with those dogs, so I am familiar with the differences. Don't forget I am talking about the consultant selection process which is not entirely related to training
by HBFanatic on 13 September 2010 - 19:05
| If a dog has the drives and abilities, what does it matter where they come from?|
Seems to me that whoever, whatever company can accurately evaluate the dogs (and after all, not all dogs with known backgrounds have what it takes and still need to be evaluated), and they pass all the needed
steps (health, skills etc) it is a great idea.
After all, seems that there are quite a few dogs that are in shelters precisely because they make bad pets due to high drive and such....
by GSDfan on 13 September 2010 - 19:34
|Sometimes well bred dogs end up in shelters too. If I were to pick a shelter dog for PSD training I would be very picky but I've seen some that work out very well. I assisted with training for a dept. who's best dog IMO was a stray picked up by a dog warden and taken in by a GSD rescue.|
Before seeing it myself I would have said you couldn't pay me enough to handle a shelter dog for sport let alone PSD (with my snotty well bred sport attitude)...I've been humbled.
by deacon on 13 September 2010 - 19:41
(PSD) = Police Service Dog, we called the (MWD) = Military Working Dogs in the military.
by 1doggie2 on 13 September 2010 - 20:46
|There are alot of well bred dogs ending up in shelters these days. Also a lot of good dogs that were just in the wrong hands but with proper training just might work out to be the best suited.|
by momosgarage on 13 September 2010 - 22:26
|I think you guys are not talking about the same part of the "selection process" that I am talking about. I am not talking about the dog going through test trials. I am talking about the consultant putting together their "statement of qualifications package" and sending it off to the government procurement officers to be evaluated when an advertisment is posted. I have never seen a Federal advertisment that allows for dogs to come from shelters. They must have their pedigree paperwork and a host of other things as stated in the ad. I look at the Federal project ads quite frequently as it is part of my job. I browse the "dogs wanted" listings occationally as I look for listing that are pertinent to my day job. I will say it again, I know how these contracts are fullfilled and I don't see how someone can list in their SOQ that they are supplying shelter dogs and then still get selected for the contract. Now maybe I am reading the various press releases wrong and they are wanting shelters and rescues to give the dogs away for free to government facilities like those at Lackland etc. Also I am not talking about local governments, I know they will take rescues. I have seen fire departments do it all the time. I am specifically talking about the Federal government saying it will accept rescue dogs, but not having any "requests for proposal" that will allow a contractor to supply a "rescue dog".|
Let me clarify, when I said "absurd" I meant the implied selection process of consultants, not the ability or lack of ability in the individual dogs.
by momosgarage on 13 September 2010 - 22:50
|I just double checked some of thier recent canine solicitation and DHS wants pedigrees,registration certificates, scorebooks and breedsurveys included in submitted proposals. I didn't call them to see how many points they will give for such items when consultants are evaluated, but if its listed in the RFP be assured they will be giving points to those contractors that provide such information. A consultant with rescues can't provide this info and thus will get less points, reducing their chances of being selected. This is why I said an established and experienced government contractor may be able to supply the occational "rescue" dog with a batch of other dogs most likely only after they have won the contract.|
I also saw a listing for the ATF that asked for purebread labradors only. I don't know how most rescue dogs would have such info, unless the rescuing agency got lucky and the last owner gave it to them at the time of surrender. I am not talking about dog ability etc, although I did mention it a little. I am talking about the Department of Homeland Security outright lying to the public saying that they will accept rescues or shelter dogs, when there are no such provisions in thier public solicitations.
by Bhaugh on 14 September 2010 - 00:11
|I work for the fed govt and I understand what your saying. But like any new contractor who wants to get in with the govt , if the contractor is serious about it, where theres a will theres a way. I say they should do something to save the tax payor some money. Id like to know how much the price gets jacked up when someone sells dogs to the govt. Then when the dog doesnt pass, a $10,000 dog gets placed into a pet home or worse, they dont get adopted at all and are euthed. |
The fiscal year is ending and maybe like you said they want to sound like they are doing the right thing. As someone who rescues, I only work with purebred dogs so if the feds only wanted purebred dogs, then that wouldnt be hard to do. I would love to work for a contractor to travel and find rescue dogs to adopt. What a great job that would be.
by momosgarage on 14 September 2010 - 02:02
|According to the solicitations I have seen, if a dog doesn't pass they have to replace the dog within a set timeframe. If a contractor is working primarily with rescues I would argue that the contractor may have a greater chance of being labeled "as a non-performer" which is a death sentence for getting future Federal contracts. Once again knowing how government contracts are awarded, I would say using rescues is too big a risk and no contractor that has put the effort into becoming a "known" consultant would take the chance, other than an exceptional one-off every so often.|
by momosgarage on 15 September 2010 - 16:43
|No other insights on this issue? I also see that there is no email address for the DHS contact. How is a potential vendor supposed to find out how using rescue/shelter dogs is to be applied.|
by momosgarage on 15 September 2010 - 17:14
I guess this topic isn't as interesting as I thought, nor has enough pubic interest to be read or discussed any further.