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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > protection work!!! SHATTERED! (27 replies)
protection work!!! SHATTERED! by leigh14 on 24 August 2010 - 09:22 |
| Hey need some advice, my dog, is 1 and a bit yrs old, he will be 2 by the end of the year. to cut a long story short, ive been workin with a one on one trainer who specialises in miliatry protection work, and ive spent the past 5 months doing obediance work, to the point where my dog is now under full control. we had schedulled to start the protection training today, but my traINER pulled the plug and said that my dog is not old enough or mature enough to start that type of training. he said that by the time he is 2 and a half yrs of age, he will be ready mentally to begin the training. he said at such a young age it is so demanding that we could do the training from now, the dog will obviously respond to the training, but he will view everyhting we do at this age as a game, and not grasp the training in real life situations. He also went on to say that it could damage my dog mentally at such a young age with such intense training. im extremely disapointed as ive bacially done all this training to get to this point where we can begin the defence./protection training. can someone share their opinion on the matter, whether my trainer is being a little conservative in not wanting to push the dog? and whether i can do any work in the mean time maybe build his agression? any response would be greatly apreciated! |
by Heidi1068 on 24 August 2010 - 11:21 |
| I dont know your trainer but if you like him and trust him I would heed his advice. My GSD is only 16 months old and she is definetly not mentally mature enough to handle the stress that is involved in training such a dog. I know for a fact that if I had a trainer that I valued and trusted and he/she gave me their honest opinion on my dogs training I would certainly listen. I dont know much about training for PPD as mine is currently starting schutzhund but what would you do if you started him to soon and got ruined mentally from all the stress ? I know I couldnt deal with it. JMO :D Cath |
by Jeff Oehlsen on 24 August 2010 - 11:37 |
| Have you ever seen how the military trains ?? |
by Gustav on 24 August 2010 - 12:44 |
| Join a Sch club. |
by Koach on 24 August 2010 - 13:02 |
| Have your dog evaluated by at least 2 other very experienced protection sports trainers (schutzhund, knvp, ring, etc). The necessary drives required for any type of protection work should already be present, apparent and being slowly developed. If present they can slowly and carefully be worked on starting “yesterday”. If not present then maybe that is the reason this person is “backing off”. Good luck, K. www.geraldguay.ca |
by GSDdrive1 on 24 August 2010 - 13:20 |
| What is your goal with the protection work. Are you trying to get a Schutzhund title, or do you want a personal protection dog? |
by Nellie on 24 August 2010 - 15:17 |
| I was thinking along the same lines as Koach, get the dog revaluated by another trainer and see what they are thinging Maybe your trainer is trying to let you down gentle about your dogs potential, Good luck |
Nellie by 1doggie2 on 24 August 2010 - 16:05 |
| Do you agree that your 6 year old son can drive the car, he can reach the pedals. I am reading from this you are not training your dog for sport, but for serious/pp work. I am not trying to insult anyone, but this is like going to ride the bumper cars with your child, vs letting your kid drive on the freeway. I would talk to him and see what prep work you can work on. Each Trainer is different, each dog is different. If this gentelman knows what he is doing, I would ask for truth and take his advise. |
by Ace952 on 24 August 2010 - 16:27 |
Now you can always go and seek another trainer but beware of twhat could happen. The new trainer will wonder why you are leaving your previous trainer and they may talk seperately about you and the dog. New trainer may agree with your old trainer and suggest you go back to him, turn you down or could say "ok I will do it but I don't advise it." OR New trainer may not care and could just want your money and will do it even knowing your dog isn't ready for it. They may not care if your dog is ruined b/c they are doing what YOU want. You seem pretty hell bent on doing it right away so I am sure your mind is pretty much made up. Do as you see best but don't let your impatience ruin a good dog. Also take this into consideration, you could speak to a few other trainers for their opinion but Im sure it will get back to your current trainer. That could ruin your relationship with him. Keep this in mind. It is one thing if you know the guy is horrible at training but I don't think that is the case. |
Ace952 by leigh14 on 25 August 2010 - 01:49 |
| cheers thanks for all the advice guys, in regards to Nellie, my trainer is a very straight forward and honest bloke, and he has told me like he told me yesteday that my dog is not naturally tough but does have enough potential to still do this type of training. apreciate all the replies, i was just hoping someone could tell me if theyve done protection work, and how old their dogs were when they started, and what type of work does it involve that makes it so stressful for the dog, just so i can understand, becuase he wouldnt go into detail as to why the works so hard! |
by mobjack on 25 August 2010 - 03:09 |
by Feather on 25 August 2010 - 04:50 |
| Join a schutzhund club? No, the person said they want real life stuff. What if the person wants real protection? How about follow your trainers advice and do whats right for the dog not just what you want to do. The military sucks at training dogs by the way. That aside, stop trying to complain about wanting to rush things. If you needed protection so bad, go get a gun. Or you should have bought an older dog if you were so impatient. |
by Feather on 25 August 2010 - 04:54 |
| Leigh, please post a video of this perfect obedience your 1 year old dog has. Would be good to see. Never heard of finished ob on a 1 year old, you know it takes longer than that. You want a dog dangerous when it doesnt listen? Mobjack, you start a dog in prey and they will always view protection that way, thats not how you start a personal protection or police dogs thats how you start sport dogs, best to wait until dog is mature and has off leash ob before agitating |
by mobjack on 25 August 2010 - 05:33 |
by blair built gsd on 25 August 2010 - 06:21 |
| Your trainer is 100% rite and you should listen ppd training is totally different than schutzhund or any other sport training. I know its hard to wait when you are eager to go been there myself it sucks. But it is the best thing for the dog last thing you want to do is mess your dog up. Rite now the best thing to do is work on your ob it can you can always sharpen it up on and off leash. Just be patient and continue to bond with your dog that is a big part of real pp work i promise. The dog has to believe his pack will protect him then he wont have a second thought about protecting his pack. |
blair built gsd by Gustav on 25 August 2010 - 12:52 |
| Feather????? Feather says...follow your dog trainers advice( the trainer has military training background), then Feather says; the military sucks at training anyway.... I wonder what kind of dogs in the military did you train Feather??? Or do you have an uninformed opinion? BTW, I said join a Sch club because your trainer told you your dog wasn't ready....he wasn't mature enough as assessed by the trainer, you seem to want to continue inspite of this advice. My advice was saying if you still want to do bitework and NOT follow the advice of the trainer than a place like a Sch club would allow that without damaging the dog. You didn't say anything in your original post about wanting a PPD and so I didn't assume that. My best advice is to stick with the regiment your trainer is setting up. Everything you said he said sounds like sound advice based on what he sees. JMO |
by ALPHAPUP on 25 August 2010 - 16:13 |
| Military ?? Oh lord .. are you in the military ?? then IMO you DO NOT need a military canine !! do YOU know what he make up of a military canine entails ?? believe me ... THAT is not what you want in the average every day life !! OR .. do you ?? there are other endeavors , sport : french or belgium ring. campagna , mondio , psa , nvbk , knvp, sch etc. or pers. protect. -- at that .. even in those cases .. i start a pup with the potential at 6.. 8 or 10 weeks even .. WHY ... because i can aid in developing the canine emotionally , psychologically , physically .. teaching the dog .. such things as basic skills , communication , manners , trust , security / well being , esteem , confidence [ etc. ad nauseum ] and most important self control !! can't give a seminar here .. BUT when i hear someone state wait until the dog is older .. Generally .. again generally .. that tells me ...[ IMO without offense ] that person not only doesn't know or understand canines .. but also canine capabilities .. / one had better know dam well the canine mind / behavior and know dam well what they are doing !! even more so .. they better understand people too ... how many average every day folk .. can even handle a military dog.. |
by 1doggie2 on 26 August 2010 - 17:28 |
| ALPHAPUP, well said. |
by yoshy on 26 August 2010 - 19:52 |
| OP I start my pups at a very young age. With that said though all there work is done in prey and just imprinting to build confidence in the work and show them similar things to what they will encounter down the road. Each dog is different in the rate it matures, %'s of drives its shows, hardness, mentality, etc....So therefore every dog is worked differently at different ages. You cant rush or push to hard on a young dog or you will most definitely ruin them. Many different trainers and helpers have different opinions on how training should be conducted and I am not going to get to deep into that on here. However some trainers believe it is better to wait for the dogs to show some maturity because they start working there dogs defensively in the beginning. just to keep it simple. personally ive seen dogs pulled from the field til they mature somewhat and come back monsters. ive seen dogs that can withstand a lot of pressure at abnormally young ages and thrived. Every dog is different. Personally i would trust your trainer as he knows what fits into his system. by going to multiple trainers it will confuse you and your dog. if you make a change then stick with it and follow there lead. however your trainer if he is worth his salt knows what your dogs capabilities are and how he fits into his program and if he doesn't think the dog has what it takes then he should say so. But as you mentioned he says he thinks your dog does. So follow his lead and instructions. you cant put a deadline on progression and development. you will only let yourself and your dog down! be patient enjoy the ride and you will be much more satisfied with the results. I do have a question though- did your trainer tell you to do anything in the mean time while your waiting for his maturity to rise? ------------- HAHA Gustav, the feather strikes again. ------------ Alphapup, i agree totally on development obviously. However i wouldn't say just because you take a break and wait on the dog to give a little more doesn't mean someone doesn't understand dogs. I can see where your coming from but i wouldn't say its always the case. |
yoshy by Slamdunc on 26 August 2010 - 20:17 |
| Feather, You wrote: Mobjack, you start a dog in prey and they will always view protection that way, thats not how you start a personal protection or police dogs thats how you start sport dogs, best to wait until dog is mature and has off leash ob before agitating I must say I really disagree with this and have not found this to be the case, IME. We work our Police dogs in prey all the time. Prey brings speed for sport dogs and Police K9's. Even on a courage test in sport or a fleeing felon, fast movements by the decoy or bad guy should be viewed as prey. Prey brings speed, speed brings force. Force = mass x speed. The faster a dog hits a decoy or a bad guy the more force that is generated. This is better for both sport dogs and Police dogs. After the hit, if there is a fight the dog can easily switch to defense and fight. I also like to wait on heavy OB until the dog is set in his bite work. JMO FWIW, Jim |
Slamdunc
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