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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > How to control the herding instincts of a gsd puppy? (11 replies)
How to control the herding instincts of a gsd puppy? by aviniti301 on 14 June 2010 - 06:33 |
| Hi all, I have a gsd female puppy of Hgh lines and she is 4 1/2 months old. She has an extremely good temprament and both parents are Hgh. She is less keen on retrieve with a ball or kong and other toys contrary loves tugging games, i have been trying to motivate her since the time i got her at 10 weeks on fetch. She simply likes to run behind cars and bikes so i can't leave her off leash and i need help in diverting the herding instincts. As for basic obedience at home she does well, is very very keen on different food rewards. Please guide me if possible. Thanks to all. aviniti. |
aviniti301 by darylehret on 15 June 2010 - 12:07 |
| Use a flirt pole. Let her know you dislike the car and bike chasing, be very unpleasant about it. Then, give her a context to express those drives, that lets her know that the behavior can be rewarding and is "OK" in certain situations. A flirt pole can be made from a buggy whip, with a strip of soft lightweight cloth tied to the end, like polarfleece. Rather than fight the instict, attempt to guide it. Then later, when you are satisfied with her relinquishment of the object, as she releases willingly to perpetuate the chase game, transition for the retrieve. Tie a lightweight toy on the end of a stouter pole, and proceed with the prey games to build drive for the particular object that she captures and returns to you on the short line, so that when the object is removed from the pole, it can be thrown for a retrieve. Experiment with different objects on the pole to find one she really likes. Mark her releases with a command word. |
darylehret by Palestar on 15 June 2010 - 20:53 |
| Why so intesnt on fetch? Get her to some sheep. |
Palestar by Two Moons on 15 June 2010 - 21:52 |
| Obedience.. |
Two Moons by TingiesandTails on 15 June 2010 - 22:57 |
| Establish pack leadership, intensify obedience, take her on leash on sidewalk and close to roads and correct her if she wants to go off. If you don't want her for herding, don't encourage it. Puppies are not always interested in holding/retrieving objects, especially during teething ...wait until she is 7 months and all her permanent teeth are there and intensify retrieving, if you want. I remember a time when HGH breeders did only sell their puppies to shepherds and farmers needing herding dogs....there was a reason behind it... |
TingiesandTails by aviniti301 on 16 June 2010 - 05:58 |
| Thanks Darylehret, i will take that advice and will get her tired before i expose her to traffic on a walk, will that help? As she is food driven i am using low end food during release command which she does very well. also for retrieve i use a treat dummy so she gets the reward on retrieve. Meanwhile i am making a flirt pole very soon. Thanks TingiesandTails, She is a good submissive puppy and when i take her on road i am trying to correct but sometimes the instincts are too strong so i guess the flirt pole idea will work well. Yes i do agree that an Hgh puppy is a bit difficult to handle compared to the rest but i don't know how to express this : that i had an option to keep only one dog and i was lucky to get it direct from kirschental so i went personally to pick her up. I assure you that even it takes time an energy it will be worth it :). thanks again. When ideas get shared it really helps in training as i find it more interesting than only breed survey. God bless, aviniti. |
by Doberdoodle on 16 June 2010 - 06:19 |
| Why do release command with a puppy that isn't even big on tugging or chasing a ball in the first place? If she likes to tug then you can teach a "bring" cue, You tug for let's say 20 seconds, then let her win, then say "Bring", when she brings it back to you (have to use a leash at first), you are going to grab it for literally 2 seconds and give it a couple little tugs, then let her win again. Now the game to the dog is: "every time I bring it back, I get a short fight, and I win." Don't let a pup off leash unless its a fully fenced area, but you can use a 25-ft longline. Keep throwing a ball for her, wether she brings it back or not, keep building up her drive. If you want to "out" her so you can re-throw the ball, use another object to trade for. So you would hold up a toy, move it around, while saying "out"-- she drops the thing in her mouth in order to get the new toy. That is how I introduce "outs" to a puppy. I don't find it useful to do the trade-offs for food, like you mentioned, because food is a different drive and I want to stay in prey and not be distracted by food. May also be a matter of finding a type of toy she likes. Try a rubber ball on a rope. What is she herding, people? |
Doberdoodle by darylehret on 16 June 2010 - 11:42 |
| The prey drive is part of herding, but not necessarily, and I understood that the puppy was tugging. I wouldn't think the possessive tugging (that she does?) indicates a lack of interest in holding objects, or a sign of teething. Possessive tugging and retrieving/releasing are opposing concepts, but the pup can be taught to transition well between the behaviors with the utilization of the flirt pole. Easier to show, than explain, I suppose, but switch to a unatached toy for the release, and then resume with the flirt pole animation. Assuming you might want to facilitate the development of herding instinct (instead of killing it), a flirt pole can be more helpful in teaching a dog to intercept livestock (or prey), because your more precise motor control of "steering" the object. The flirt pole will allow you to better simulate the prey behavior component of the broader based "herding instinct", and should be far more attractive to the pup than a car or bike (unless it's "knpv instinct";-) ). A flirt pole can also be useful for imprinting the willingness to retrieve (seemingly to the pup, of it's own accord), and teach the pup to switch to and from the possessive tugging behavior, without killing that part as well. |
by ShadyLady on 16 June 2010 - 15:48 |
It's a separate issue. You are trying to get her to retrieve and can work on different techniques for that, but chasing cars and bikes is simply her being allowed to do what she wants to do. You need to control her. If she were chasing livestock and runnig them to death (literally) wouldn't you want to stop her and have control without having her on leash all of the time? |
ShadyLady by aviniti301 on 18 June 2010 - 15:36 |
| Hi Darylehret, i have started with flirt ploe and she has no possessive tugging but i have a difficulty in release as she will do it for a treat immediately, so should i continue? yes she is also teething so i need to take care of that too. Possessive tugging and retrieving/releasing are opposing concepts, what does this mean? can i ask you for help? i am not so much into protection work as in bombay space is already a constrain and i am mentioning it as though my puppy, thanks to your advice, has come up very high in retrieve too but in between it requires rewards to strengthen it but her mouthing has increased on my kids who are 6 and 9 yrs old, does retrieve & flirt pole give different results? Due to YOU my puppy has stopped chasing vehicles, what does this mean " pup can be taught to transition well between the behaviors with the utilization of the flirt pole". i am sorry but i understand probably i am a bit slow, please do help. even when she retrieve's she mouths heavily on the reward which is in my hand. Daryl, you have made a huge change in me & my pup, god bless you, can you guide me more? thanks nitesh. |
by aviniti301 on 18 June 2010 - 15:36 |
| Hi Darylehret, i have started with flirt ploe and she has no possessive tugging but i have a difficulty in release as she will do it for a treat immediately, so should i continue? yes she is also teething so i need to take care of that too. Possessive tugging and retrieving/releasing are opposing concepts, what does this mean? can i ask you for help? i am not so much into protection work as in bombay space is already a constrain and i am mentioning it as though my puppy, thanks to your advice, has come up very high in retrieve too but in between it requires rewards to strengthen it but her mouthing has increased on my kids who are 6 and 9 yrs old, does retrieve & flirt pole give different results? Due to YOU my puppy has stopped chasing vehicles, what does this mean " pup can be taught to transition well between the behaviors with the utilization of the flirt pole". i am sorry but i understand probably i am a bit slow, please do help. even when she retrieve's she mouths heavily on the reward which is in my hand. Daryl, you have made a huge change in me & my pup, god bless you, can you guide me more? thanks nitesh. |
by darylehret on 22 June 2010 - 01:11 |
Yeah; don't overuse the flirtpole, and quit asking for help on this forum. Most people here shouldn't be giving advice, myself included. Too much room for F*%ups because of perception. Even if you're clearly understood, and the advisor is clearly understood by yourself, the advice may not be the best for that dog, given that so many important details of your individual dog or puppy can be so easily omitted or over/underestimated, because your experience is different or awareness of what to look for differs. Find a real person in the flesh, and before you decide to confide in them, make sure you see the dogs they've worked with. |
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