German Shepherd Dog > KC Meeting with GSD club representatives -(fact not fiction) (134 replies)
by agilitylad on 09 May 2010 - 15:14
|hhhhmmmmmm DINGODOG, the agility enthusiast and competitor Katrina Doble? from Sussex if I remember rightly.|
Not at the big agility event in Ardingley Sussex this weekend then, funny how myself or any of my friends who work GSD's in agility from Sussex and surrounding counties have never heard of you??
Was a good show though, shame about the rubbish weather, got cold and damp but still a great event.
by Dingodog on 09 May 2010 - 16:17
|GSDAgility - Cathy|
by missbeeb on 09 May 2010 - 16:35
So... hubby runs the dog? What DO you do? LOL... this get funnier and funnier; do you compete in Ob? I used to, many moons ago, worked up to "B" with one, but I'm rather out of touch.
by Dingodog on 09 May 2010 - 16:56
by missbeeb on 09 May 2010 - 17:44
Relax Dingo... you think this is personal... dog activities? OK sorry, trust me, I'm not intrigued... bemused maybe.
by apoArmani on 09 May 2010 - 18:04
|The Times Are Changing;|
"Take this trouble for me: Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim." Rittermeister Captain Max von Stephanitz 1864-1936
*And for some its not looking to be as easy as it was before. But before we take on that point, lets take a look at some realities; and in particular those that GSD enthusiasts from around the globe face when they venture into this 'sport' which for some is a money making excuse whilst for others it is a bottomless pit which gives the mere satisfaction one gets when achieving a set target and indeed working together with people for a common goal - to improve this breed and to stay in line with the wishes of its founder!!
Let me Analyze:
If one is to follow the path of the WUSV; whether for the sport-type or show-type, there are common grounds which meet at the point of health-fitness, and breeding worthiness; consolidated in the known Breed Survey. It doesn't matter if your young dog gets 300 points in his/her SchH/IPO examinations, or indeed is place 1st in the youth classes 50 times; in order for either of these dogs to get breeding worthiness (regardless of whether they are to be in category BSCL/KKL1 (recommended for breeding) or BSCL/KKL 2 (acceptable for breeding), they must fulfill certain criteria:
1/ Gain a grading of at least G/Good in a specialist GSD show
2/ Complete a 20 km trot a-side a bicycle-riding handler this is: AD
3/ Complete and pass a basic obedience task which includes on leash and off leash commands and walking at heel,retrieve an object from a controlled position, crowd testing,traffic testing,reaction to other dogs, and a gun test - this is: BH
4/ Have one of the three acceptable degrees of Hip Displasya Status: normal,fast-normal,noch-zugelasen
5/ Have gained SchH1/IPO1 (minimum): which in tales the obedience test above, protection testwith the dog required to perform a short walk and be confronted by a person (in a suit made for the job wearing aprotective 'sleeve') waving and threatening with specially made stick where by the dog MUST attack with a 'full bite' and release on command (hence the control) and perform the same from a distance of aprox 50m and again release on command from distance all the while remaining by the stranger until his handler withdraws him/her. And must obtain with courage/fighting instinct 'pronounced if the dog is to be eligible to obtain BSCL/KKL1.
6/ Be presented at a Breed Survey, where the dog has to perform the same (more or less) courage/fighting/protection test and pass, tested for gun sureness as per SchH/IPO, then will be weighed measured, and be examined by the Judge/Surveyor much like an 'individual' specialty show examination - only much more detailed. This process can take aprox an hour maybe more.
Depending on the findings and severity of failings (as per the standard) the dog will be given BSCL1/2 or indeed be be rejected.
Of course you must feed your dog well and provide the necessary vet care like anyone else who loves their dog as this dog is a member of your family.
I am sure that most of the readers already know this and are thinking - this guy is trying to teach us how to suck eggs!! Not at all...we are talking about the GSD enthusiast who now wants to venture into this sport and perhaps even breed.
To do all of the above there are three choices:
1/ Spend endless hours at the GSD/Training Club together with people who will help and guide you through all these different examinations
2/ Employ a trainer to complete this for you and deliver
3/ Buy a ready made dog
And this is where the problem lye's; first off if the dog h
by missbeeb on 09 May 2010 - 18:10
Please complete... the end of your post is missing, this often happens, don't know why!
by apoArmani on 09 May 2010 - 18:12
|... first off if the dog has already failed at the first big 'hurdle' and did not get an acceptable as above hip status, the dog can not continue. With failed hips, the dog can not even obtain G/Good at a show. Options 2 and 3 are costly and option 1 has risks that one must tackle if doing it for the first time (this can be a breeder who has bred many many litters before and suddenly has to ENTER this unknown WORLD of work!! Or be forced to pay someone to do it.|
*And for some its not looking to be as easy as it was before because what do these 'breeders' do with the dogs they have and are doing well in the KC shows, but (choose any of the above tests) would fail to comply and do not make the grade for one reason or the other. Even a bigger dilemma; what with the ones that are still young, made it through the HD hurdle...who will train them? and oh my goodness...would they pay someone between 2,500EU to 4,000EU per dog to do this?!! I know the answer!! And it doesn't start with a Y.
Isn't it much easier and cheaper to show without these restrictions, or better still breed with dogs of this level - KC is happy; More show entries, more registrations. Breeders are happy; better chances of having dogs to show (no elimination process from within), less expenditure outlay for breeding stock = money in the bank for all concerned. All the while
Max von Stephanitz is turning in his grave!!!
Their current way of going along with very little in terms of expenses (compared to the WUSV) way, suits them just fine! They can show their dogs, make them up into Champions and have not even completed the minimum of tasks and expense...Addressing the HEALTH ISSUE.
Its insulting to those who go through the above process; in the process having to take out some very beautiful dogs because they don't come through: major LOSS, spend money to hasv their dogs trained (sometimes several per year), or have good enough people skills to make large teams who will co-operate in the tasks and share the burdens and the joy... Then have to listen to some on this board say/imply that the WUSV followers has gone about it wrong and exaggerated the breed when in actual fact those that follow these steps know only too well that every year the issues are ADDRESSED and clear steps are taken to tackle the problems BUT certainly not ignored and CERTAINLY dont go out of their way to make things worse.
It is quite simple: DIFFERENTIATION...change The color of the pedigrees so as JO PUBLIC is AWARE clearly where the differences are and why.
by missbeeb on 09 May 2010 - 18:15
by Dingodog on 09 May 2010 - 18:29
by Dingodog on 09 May 2010 - 18:31
Meant to say, reveal who you are and let's see whether we know you in our circles.
by Videx on 09 May 2010 - 18:32
|excellent post apo-Armani - George.|
by missbeeb on 09 May 2010 - 18:34
Bloody Hell, Dingo! Get a grip... you're not that important! I have no idea who Agilitylad is and care less... Jeeze, some paranoia galloping in there!
You really don't matter that much (well, not to me) so get over yourself... I'm more than able for you... trust!
by bazza on 09 May 2010 - 18:45
|ApoArmani, excellent post, but I noticed it went right over someones head, to busy self back slapping. So once again GREAT POST.|
by Dingodog on 09 May 2010 - 18:49
|I would agree apoArmani|
Trouble is we in the UK have either the KC, who meet none of the requirements, or the new GSDL/WUSV who are implementing a British system which doesn't include numbers 2 or 5 and number 6 doesn't include half of the elements that the WUSV breed survey requires. So it would seem that the UK GSDL/WUSV is planning on implementing a British System which is not the same as WUSV. They may fall into line entirely with the WUSV at a later date, but I don't think that is a certainty and will certainly take some years to accomplish.
So I think for the time being the UK are opting out of both systems, and creating one unique to the UK, which will be a WUSV style of showing, with all the mandatory health testing, but not meeting full WUSV requirements, although I think the acceptable grade for elbows is higher for the UK. At least that's my interpretation from what I have been told on this board. I don't actually know where that puts them in the overall scheme of things. Better than the KC and not as good as the WUSV I guess.
So your idea to change the colour of the pedigree wouldn't really work anyway as the new group fall into neither camp. In any case, to change the colour of the registration papers would require the KC's co-operation, which I doubt is likely to happen with the way things stand.
by Dingodog on 09 May 2010 - 18:53
|Any answer on the show ring question?|
by missbeeb on 09 May 2010 - 18:59
Is that an apology for what you accused me of? No? Ah well.
Double handling is the answer, though personally, I couldn't run fast enough for long enough... age and choccy!
by AgilityGSD on 09 May 2010 - 19:00
I've competed with my GSD's in agility for the past 20 odd years or more, I also judge at KC agility shows, (twice in recent years at Billingshurst) so I look forward to seeing you and your dog (working). I was also at Tunbridge Wells this weekend freezing my arse off. I find your comments and diggs on here very frustrating ! ! I've owned several dogs from the show lines/breeders which you seem to have a big problem with on here? My dogs have been simply the best dogs I could have ever owned, and all loving agility. What I want out of my dogs is 1st to be happy and healthy, 2nd to be able to join mein competing in 'my' hobby of agility. I certainly don't think the type of GSD's the KC are wanting/promoting would be able to even take part in 'AllSorts' or 'AnySize' classes (jumps of only 15 inches high), let alone compete successfully in grade 3 in their 1st season. And now competing in grade 4 at the tender age of 3, like my fabulous young boy is? All DP and the others on here are trying to do is breed healthy GSD's and improving the breed. They should be applauded for their hard work not criticised !!!!! If yoy can do any better you should put your money where your mouth is?
by bazza on 09 May 2010 - 19:06
|Why? Are you looking to hire someone? Why don't you just put your question in the SEARCH MESSAGBOARD I'm sure you will find all the answers your little heart desires. But I think everyone knows you are not really interested in the answers but in picking holes in everything. Don't you think it's time to find new Jollies, oh I forgot you're doing that on the "colour" thread.|
by missbeeb on 09 May 2010 - 19:11
|LOL Bazza... I can't believe she thought I'd recruited someone to post for me!|