German Shepherd Dog > Can You Say "Knucklehead"??? (99 replies)
by Phil Behun on 15 April 2010 - 20:05
|There is no "attack on helper" exercise in the sport. The handler does not "send" the dog from the free heeling exercise, the dog is to defend on it's own as is the case for the "attack on the dog from the back transport". The surprise attack out of the blind was the old SchHI exercise and was considered the best test of all 3 levels. The exercise was eliminated from SchHI along with the gunfire from the BH because the show line dogs (and the Border Collies) were having a hard time passing The only exercise where the dog is commanded to go forward is the long bite. All other exercises the dog is to work independently and engage on movement/threat from the helper. Let me know if you need any more explanations about the sport of SchH or the rules for the performance tests for the Sieger Show. You know, 'cuz I'm not a Shepherd guy.|
by charlie319 on 16 April 2010 - 00:20
|That's right. You are a Mali guy that started this thread to ridicule another person and his GSD in a GSD board. The guy who apparently had no idea of who was Triumph's Gucci. Must be like a sinking ship at the Mali boards once you arrive if you have to come and slum at a board of owners of a breed of dog that you hold in such obvious contempt. I unlike you, have a little thicker skin and security on what I know and don't know to get more than a chuckle out of your feeble efforts. Getting old must be harsh...|
by Phil Behun on 16 April 2010 - 02:59
|No, I'm a Malinois guy as you are a Sheppie guy. Actually I am a working dog guy and hold in contempt any one who dilutes the working temperament of any working breed. Tired of the popularity of the Malinois breed that causes many to breed crap and sell it for nothing. Tired of watching apathy for the sake of political correctness. Tired of watching people make tens of, and in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars misrepresenting themselves and the dogs. Tired of people dyeing dogs and breaking tails and lying about training all in the name of money. You apparently don't care about any it. Sure getting older is harsh, you got a way to stop it? You may say older, I say wiser.|
by VonIsengard on 16 April 2010 - 05:26
|For what it's worth, I trialed under the old SchH1 rules with my squishy, lousy, no-drive show dog and she did just fine, it wasn't hard at all for her, and I disagreed strongly with the changes. |
Just because people aren't shaking their proverbial fists on messageboards doesn't mean they dont care, and it doesn't mean they don't try to help the problem.
by charlie319 on 16 April 2010 - 13:22
|If you've taken the time to read some of my posts on the sad state of our bifurcated breed of choice, I would like to see the GSD return to a pre-1989 state when show dogs and working dogs were often the same. While I disagree with the purely show-line crowd, I also think that breeding working-lines dogs that are not able to compete in a conformation dog show (forget about doing well) is also a diservice to the breed. I don't like the way that prey drive has been "amped-up" in the breed to make it easier to train a dog that may not be so reliable as a protector/deterrent while defense drives have been squelched all for the sake of marketability. IMPO, a 60/40 balance, with defense drive being the higher, and is both functional and aesthetic would be my ideal GSD for a home companion/pet. Personally, I'd like to see more sables, blacks and greys in the show circuit, but that could be another different thread. I may yet end up breeding towards such a dog, but If I do, I'll make sure to have plenty of advice from experienced persons who understand my goal.|
I'm not familiar with the situation in the malinois community, because when I did consider shopping for a mali, I decided that their temperament was not reliable enough across the board for me to find a "good fit". I do know a few folks that do own mali's and it works for them, and some who "make it work". The problems you mention in the Mali breed also happen in the GSD breed, with the added problem of having two lines for these charlatans to prey on. Those charlatans eventually get exposed. It is not unusual for owners/breeders to ship their dogs off to have someone train them and hang a SchH-1 and Kkl them so they can crank out puppies, or for champions to be bred with little thought to what the cross may result beyond what is apparent on the printed pedigree. The neophyte and those who buy on impulse will pay, but these are seldom show or working/sport homes. I have more respect for the small owner who trains & titles his own dog (bred or bought it makes no difference), maybe breeds one (or two, if he owns more than one bitch) litters/year (certainly not in it for the money) and keeps an occasional prospect for his own use than I do for some breeders who have five or six litters every quarter. I have a friend that trains malis for law enforcement and drug/explosives detection, and that appears to be a completely different game.
As for the dog on the original post, there are GSD lovers out there that either can't afford, or justify $700.00 to $5,000.00 that breeders charge for a pup. I look at some of these as "entry-level" dogs that may eventually help make the breed as popular as it once was as their owners eventually replace them with better dogs. They certainly are not competing for customers from the more upscale breeders.
One thing is "aging", which is an innevitable offshoot of being alive. Getting older has to do with the emotional and physical wear and tear a person undergoes and how it adversely affects them.
by gucci on 16 April 2010 - 14:05
|Well, Well, Well, cannot believe someone so knowledgeable would have the guts to insult my dog, totally from lack of knowledge. Thanks all, who knew him, and his long bite can be seen on my site or on Google, the one in Mexico with Carl Smith (my favorite decoy) besides my Trainer Russ Osburn and Gucci's handler, Ummmm. He was a total "working dog guy" till he met Gucci, Now my kennel is both working and show lines. You just cannot hear the sound of him hitting the sleeve, which is too bad. The other is when he was VA1 in Sweden, where he takes the decoy down...Good Boy!!!!!!!!! He truly was magnificent. So enjoy the blogs Phil...Glad I am not a member of USA any longer. Lida Fleury|
by gucci on 16 April 2010 - 14:58
by Bob McKown on 16 April 2010 - 18:29
|AWDF is doing some good stuff in the protection work...|
by gucci on 17 April 2010 - 01:25
by gucci on 17 April 2010 - 03:01
by Dawn G. Bonome on 17 April 2010 - 03:32
|I loved Triumph's Gucci from day one when I saw a picture of him and wanted something from his lines and I am proud to say that I own a grandson from Triumph's Gucci! He was a SHOWLINE dog with a WORKINGLINE attitude who did it all with GUSTO! You bash an animal and his owner who trained him to DO IT ALL! Mr. Nyman is not here to defend himself or Gucci, so you bash the dog, and the man who trained him, and they are both DEAD! The proof is in what the dog did accomplish when he was alive! Trumph's Gucci was a great dog! Russ Osburn and Lida Fleury still are alive and miss him immensely. A TRULY GREAT DOG!!!!|
by gucci on 17 April 2010 - 04:20
by gucci on 17 April 2010 - 04:38
Sorry, this is not going to go away for a while, and one day I will expose what Nia cottrell mailed me and ran, it was awful, and have never heard the words from a womens mouth she expressed. unbelieveable bump
by gucci on 17 April 2010 - 04:46
by djc on 17 April 2010 - 05:49
|All I can say Phil is that, it is a shame that none of us can watch the GREAT working dog Triumphs Gucci, with a VA1 in front of his name, show how it should be done. Any of the helpers that ever worked the dog would tell you so also. He can and will stand forever with working lines and show lines and show the world what a dog who is bred properly with the correct conformation AND working drives looks like. He was a GREAT dog and your blind ignorance is the true definintion of "knucklehead"! I count it a great privilege to have known him personally!|
Let's see IF your mal ever has this nice of a hold and bark! AND is top of his breed in conformation!
by gucci on 17 April 2010 - 12:57
|Nice pic Debby, Thanks, I'm through now...|
by JaTee on 17 April 2010 - 16:07
|I don't normally respond to any topic, but this was one that I knew I had to talk about. I also want to say what a great dog Triumps Gucci was and will always be--he lives on in his progeny. I was only able to be around Gucci in his later years, but with the working line ethics he had and the showline conformation he had, I can only aspire to having a dog like him one day.|
by Dawn G. Bonome on 17 April 2010 - 19:36
Debby... A GREAT PICTURE of THE MAN! TRIUMPH'S GUCCI!
by gucci on 17 April 2010 - 22:10
|it is fine Dawn, she means nothing in my life, just was a little shocked at her filthy mouth...|
by Dawn G. Bonome on 17 April 2010 - 22:30