German Shepherd Dog > Train or not to Train, what is the answer? (48 replies)
by Adi Ibrahimbegovic on 08 February 2010 - 17:27
|damn laptop with sticky keyboard. I meant... if you have a KID, not "kind".|
by k9ulf on 08 February 2010 - 19:44
can you specify please when you use compulsion and what for? A lot of fun in the puppyhood and then?
I think compulsion is only used to rectify the mistakes the owner/trainer/handler name it, has made in the first place when the dog was younger and in the puppyhood. Poor dogs, they get all the fun taught, their natural instincts used to condition things which will be ingrained and as soon as they are older all the fun is over. All of sudden the sit has to be done quicker, straighter and if the dog does not understand because it has been taught differently it will feel the pressure.It will lose motivation, going in avoidance because it is confused but sometimes hope arises when the owner drops a ball and the dog can chew a bit on it(how boring), not for long of course because the owner wants the toy back to continue the "training" .With increasing age then most working dogs are slowing down and get retired with 6-7 years because the owner thinks the dog lost its physical abilities because of the age without realising the dog has actually been worn out mentally by the owner
Dogs always do exactly what you taught them , if the results are matching your intentions is a different matter.
Many words in dog training like "comply" "boss" "dominance" are used as if the dog understands the values of our human society.
I think I mentioned elsewhere before" If you learn to understand the "rules" of the dog rather than to expect the dog to climb up to your level you will be getting closer to the solution.
Allt the best
by Adi Ibrahimbegovic on 08 February 2010 - 20:19
|You want me to specify when I use it? I use it everyday at 4, 20 PM.|
by Keith Grossman on 08 February 2010 - 20:47
|You can find some good advice from Jim (Slamdunc) in this thread: |
by Swifteagle on 12 February 2010 - 12:41
|Thank You all for your replies. Sorry I have not been able to respond sooner. This week I have moved houses and things have been quite hectic.|
Basically we have decided that the best thing to do for our pup is to start basic training now while he is young and save the heavier training for when he is a little older.
We got him beacuse we would like to do some protection training with him or schutzhund. So I guess the sooner we start teaching him the basics the easier he will grasp further heavier training later.
and other question... I know you guys might know the answer to this.
We have had the puppy for 3 days now and he is very nice and friendly with people, but the minute he sees another dog he starts to bark at them and seems like he wants to have a go at them. I called the breeder to find out what was going on and he said to me that through the dad side there is a lot of males that are very dominant alpha male dogs. So he said that in a few weeks start taking him to a place where they have puppies around his age (nearly 4 months old now) to let him go and play and eventually he will start to calm down. not sure what to think....
The Breeder also said that he is a working line dog with some higher agression than a "normal dog" so when he sees another dog that is not part of his pack he feels it is an intruder.
I am not sure how much socializing this puppy has had, but I think the breeder had other dogs in his farm, so I am sure the puppy has seen other dogs...
Today he was barking at a small dog, so I asked the owner if it was ok to get close as I wanted to show my puppy there was not need for that.... so he eventually calmed down and started to sniff the dog, eventually the small dog growled and my puppy made a submissive posture. could this mean that could have been attacked by a bigger dog or is this normal for a puppy?
Once again thanks alot for the answers, very helpful from you guys...Also I am sorry for not gettting back any sooner but I was too busy, it sucks to move house.
by ShadyLady on 12 February 2010 - 16:14
Good to hear that you are going to do some basic, fun training.
Your puppy isn't barking at other dogs becuase he's an "alpha". He's insecure of what they mean to him. He needs to be out and about more. Treating another dog like an intruder is OK on his property, but he shouldn't be allowed to be dog aggressive out in public when he's with you.
He wasn't attacked by another dog before. He's being submissive to the other dog.You want him to be comfortable around groups of people and other dogs, so socialize, but don't let other dogs dominate him and invade his space or take toys from him.
by Red Sable on 12 February 2010 - 19:32
I just re-watched the Leerburg DVD, Raising a Working Puppy, and he says, dogs are pack animals, and should not play with dogs or people outside their pack. There is no need. Yes, take him out and about, but only let him interact with dogs that are completely neutral to him. That would be dogs that are not aggressive, nor do they want to play, they just ignore him. Other than that, no dogs .
If he sees a dog and starts to bark, redirect him to you, in a happy tone, when he then focus's on you, praise and reward. Do this also with strangers. Some dogs are not born aloof, so they must be taught to ignore anyone else but you. You are the center of their universe. Play, food, petting, commands, all come from you and only you.
Hope this helps!
by Swifteagle on 12 February 2010 - 22:19
Thanks onces again for the quick reply...
I agree with you two on what you said. I think I need to socialize him more with other dogs but make sure he is with dogs that will not hurt him or be way to exited to see him.
Red Sable Is that DVD worth the money? I am thinking of getting it.
by ShadyLady on 12 February 2010 - 22:20
|I'm sure RS will say "yes", but I'm agreeing ahead of time. ;-) Buy it. It will be well worth it to you.|
by Swifteagle on 12 February 2010 - 22:26
He he he, you did get ahead of him .....lol
do you know if it is one of those Dvd this that buy and then download? I am in Australia and I am not sure if they will post here.
by Red Sable on 12 February 2010 - 22:42
| Yes. |
I'm not sure if they ship to Australia,but it is worth a look see. Visit their site, they have alot of good DVD's for sale, that will help you. They also have training articles to read. :)
I guess the word is neutralize. In otherwords, get him used to 'seeing' but no need for closer contact. A puppy should not look at another dog as a playmate or a threat. He recommended not having your pup even play with your own dogs until 4,5-5 months old, otherwise they become too doggy. Dogs bond much quicker to other dogs, so it is best to just have him see other dogs but learn to ignore them. That can be done as I mentioned above.
All the best!
by hodie on 12 February 2010 - 23:12
For what it is worth, I have a different opinion. Dogs are very social animals and in my experience, I have never had issues with dogs who would rather be with a dog if they were trained right. That means I allowed my dogs to play with each other at all ages, as was appropriate to the pairing, but I made sure that they knew I was more fun and had more to offer when time came for training. This too is a subject that is controversial, just like whether dogs belong in the house, should be crated all the time except when training, when to start training or delay it etc. Dogs can be social with other dogs around here, but if I pick up a ball or a tug, or tell them to "fuss", they will gladly do so because they know it is time for work. And for them, work = good things to come.
You have to decide on what methods you wish to use, but I suggest that you need not isolate the dog from other dogs just because you want to do something later or now with it. When you train the pup, of course, there should be no other distractions early on....
by ShadyLady on 13 February 2010 - 01:56
I think what RS and Hodie both are saying can be applied. There are extremes to everything and I agree that certain ways of managing working dogs can be controversial to some.
I don't see it that way, as you need to pick what works for you. I allow play with other dogs, but only if my puppy is not being dominated (my puppy can dominate another puppy, that's fine heh heh) or is playing so much with another dog that s/he would bond with another dog. I think that would be excesessive play.
Years ago, I had a Catahoula bitch who was the best puppy raiser. If you had an older dog like that, it helps in teaching your puppy about proper manners around other canines.
I like dogs to be dogs, but if you are spending enough time with your puppy/dog, you shouldn't have any issues.
Hodie makes a good point in making sure that the dog needs to find you more fun than anything else. That is all about your relationship - and you are the one responsible for that. <g>
I think your DVD's are in a different Region than the US & Canada, so Leerburg's may not work for you. I would write an email to them and ask though.
by GSDXephyr on 14 February 2010 - 01:27
Ok, I have to laugh... is that the video where he is holding the puppy leash and summarizing that puppies shouldn't learn that other dogs are fun.. as the puppy slips it's collar and takes off out of the shot after another dog, leaving him standing there talking with an empty collar swinging on a leash? That was pretty funny.
by mirasmom on 14 February 2010 - 01:51
|When people come to pick up pups from me, I remind them, that they are getting a GSD pup, BUT, that pup is a big dog in a puppy body, don't be fooled, start training your pup right away, the only thing that will need extra attention towards learning is potty training.|
Train your pup to do something before you hand over the food bowl, they will learn very quick when it comes to food
Teach your pup "RIGHT AWAY" to "Sit" Down" Stay" "Come" and any other trick you like, they are like sponges at this age, and smart enough to absorb enough info to make you red in the face!
by Swifteagle on 14 February 2010 - 12:09
The little fellow is doing well and we are very happy with him..
I need to work with him on regards to his barking towards other things....like animals and today a group of people.
things he bark at:
He doesnt like birds... when they come to our backyard he barks at them from his kennel.
other dogs. Today I got a friend to bring his little dog and it when well, he didnt even bark...may be he though she was to small to bother.
He barked at a group of people. I came to them to ask the if it was cool for them to pat him, but then he started barking at them...so they got scared....I said he was only 3 months old...but they got scared... This guys were black ( I am not racist, just clearing that part) so I am not sure if that was a new thing to him or may be he was barking because a guy was sitting on a swing holding a baby (not swinging), so not really sure why he barked. any way he then got over it.
so yeah he is going well and I will be doing my part to train him the best I can.
by Swifteagle on 14 February 2010 - 12:34
Just wondering if anyone know any of dogs in my puppy's Pedigree....I would be interested to know more about those dogs...
I blanked out few things as they are private details of the breeder...
by GSDXephyr on 14 February 2010 - 20:01
That came out too blurry to read on my screen... maybe you could enter it into the database and then link it to the thread?
by Swifteagle on 14 February 2010 - 22:35
Sorry about, I am new to this stuff. Can you see it better now Heather? I tried making it bigger
by happyday on 15 February 2010 - 01:08
|Please input the pedigree on the database then just put a link to it instead of scanning the paperwork... this way you will have your dog's pedigree on the database for all time.....|