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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > Hip dysplasia breeding schemes & PennHIP (15 replies)
Hip dysplasia breeding schemes & PennHIP by Videx on 23 December 2009 - 11:42 |
Hip dysplasia breeding schemes and PennHIP
Mike Guilliard MA VetMB CertSAO MRCVS Nantwich Veterinary Hospital (UK) Canine hip dysplasia (CHD) is a common cause of pelvic limb lameness and exercise intolerance. The dictionary definition of dysplasia is abnormal growth or development and as such CHD is a developmental condition and is not congenital. CHD is prevalent in almost all breeds and must be seen as a result of breeding programmes selected to accentuate characteristics that are desirable for the various breed standards. Breeds such as the racing Greyhound, where the selection process is towards racing performance, have normal hips and do not develop the osteoarthritis (OA) of CHD. It has long since been known that CHD is an inherited condition and as such, by identifying the carriers, it should be possible to decrease its prevalence and severity. As the condition is polygenic screening for specific genes is not yet a possibility and so identification of carriers is by phenotype and not genotype. Basically all hip improvement schemes attempt to predict the likelihood of the development of hip OA. The standard British Veterinary Association/Kennel Club (BVA/KC) hip scheme selects as its phenotype, changes to the hip joints as seen on a hip-extended radiograph with various changes to the joint being scored as to their severity. These changes fall into three categories that are basically subluxation, joint remodelling and osteoarthritis. Similar schemes include the OFA scheme of the USA, the FCI scheme of Europe and the German SV a stamp scheme. Continued here: http://www.videxgsd.com/HD_breeding_schemes_PennHIP.htm |
Videx by Lief on 23 December 2009 - 22:14 |
| the problem with Pennhip is its cost prohibitive and frankly hardly anyone does it hence there are no pedigrees with depth of Pennhip for them to say its working I doubt they even have 10k GSD's in their database the rate of EX in GSD last year was over 8 percent a sizable improvement |
Lief by Pharaoh on 24 December 2009 - 03:01 |
| In 1994, I took my 1 year old Shepherd for OFA prelims and the vet talked me into a PennHip. I'll spare you the long sad story but it was done and they told me that he was in the top 10% and then something went on and they said it had to be redone. The second time, my dog was injured and they told me that his one side was really loose and he was now in the bottom 10%. Yeah, I guess it was loose after forcing the ball out of the socket with their distractor! He was so freaked out he threw up on his chest and he could not sit down for a week. The PennHip practitioner never returned my phone calls. Luckily, he got an OFA Good on his prelim and a Fair at two years. He lived to be 13+ and he never developed dysplasia. The area that was injured did get a bit of arthritis, but not too bad and only in his old age. I called every orthopedic vet in California and found out that there were other dogs who had been injured. Dr Corely at OFA had a lot of information on that. and I was truly shocked. Well, it was a long time ago. But, I would never let someone give my dog anasthesia. balance him on his spine and put the distractor between his legs (which are straight up) and apply an unknown and uncontrolled amount of pressure, with no guage of the amount of force applied. He was injured precisely because his hips were so very tight. Good luck, Michele |
Pharaoh by Xeph on 24 December 2009 - 06:18 |
| It has long since been known that CHD is an inherited condition Has that actually been proven yet? To the best of my knowledge, it's still a theory. I still won't be from parents that weren't OFA'd, but I don't believe it's been proven that CHD is genetic. |
Xeph by Lief on 24 December 2009 - 10:49 |
| uh yeah its widely accepted that hip dysplasia is strictly genetic |
by VomMarischal on 24 December 2009 - 16:14 |
| It's also widely accepted that it can be from environment and nutrition. |
by darylehret on 24 December 2009 - 16:45 |
| Greatly modified by environment and nutrition, but doubtfully caused by it. |
darylehret by Videx on 24 December 2009 - 17:25 |
| It is well to remember the lines of the philosopher Hippocrates in 360 BC when he said “There are in fact two things:- science and opinion. The former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance.” |
by Lief on 24 December 2009 - 20:13 |
| not in anyway caused by enviroment, its proven the greater the phenotype the lower the rate of dysplasia not to mention unilateral dysplasia is a good argument against enviromental causes,certain breeds are prone to a side predilection when it comes to unilateral dysplasia. some breeds prone to left others prone to right ,enviroment can modify the expression of the disease but the are no known enviromental causes or cures and they have identifed a genetic marker in PWD via the Georgie project that indicates sublaxation one for the right one for the left |
by SchHBabe on 27 December 2009 - 01:34 |
| If I recall correctly from the AVMA scientific abstracts that I read, CHD was found to be "moderately heritable" and this is evidenced by the fact that two "normal" dogs can produce a dysplastic dog and vice versa. Nevertheless, the heritability of CHD has been proven and as such should not be dismissed as merely environmental. I have had two dogs checked by PennHIP and it is absolutely the only method I would choose for my own dogs even though it cost me about $400 each and I had to drive more than 3 hours to find the closest PennHIP vet - such is the value of the method to me. I wrote a detailed article on PennHIP vs OFA techniques for Schutzhund USA magazine maybe two years ago. If anyone wants a copy of that article send me a PM and I will be happy to share it. I hope that the PennHIP method will continue to grow in popularity and that they will finally produce an on-line searchable database which is badly needed. This is an issue near and dear to my heart as I have had two GSD's now retired from the sport due to dysplasia. Yvette |
SchHBabe by Pharaoh on 27 December 2009 - 02:08 |
| Good luck with that. You must think I am lying or delusional. I am neither. I am also not the only one. Michele |
by Lief on 27 December 2009 - 11:14 |
I think the moderate heritability refers to the fact the diease can be modified by enviroment and while its known two normals can produce dysplasia its also known that breeds with the highest rates of EX have the lowest rates of dysplasia I'm not sure Pennhip will get more popular they were in such dire straits a few years back it was offered for sale to OFA who turned it down though a couple board members were in favor of it. The other problem is people say its not subjective but they are only comparing to the very small number that they have in the database if any breed were to suddenly increase by several thousand that would change the status of any dog, that dog may no longer have better hips than X percentage of dogs, the fact elbow dysplasia is such a concern may have doomed Pennhip since people would rather get hips and elbows in one fell swoop even then people are only getting elbows done at half the rate of hips Oi Vey! |
by Jago on 28 December 2009 - 14:36 |
"Has that actually been proven yet? To the best of my knowledge, it's still a theory. I still won't be from parents that weren't OFA'd, but I don't believe it's been proven that CHD is genetic." LOL Seriously Xeph, are you for real? What rock have you been hiding under to think that crock of shite? "It is well to remember the lines of the philosopher Hippocrates in 360 BC when he said “There are in fact two things:- science and opinion. The former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance.” Here here DP, shame some people would rather be ignorant than gain knowledge. T
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by Janette on 28 December 2009 - 17:55 |
| For whatever it's worth...we have had over 2 dozen dogs Pennhip and none had any sickness or lameness. The Vet is suppose to be schooled to do this procedure. But they are humans too and mistakes can be made. We found Pennhip to be a useful tool in helping to make breeding decisions. OFA was just too opinionated for us. |
Janette by Sunsilver on 28 December 2009 - 21:12 |
| For those of you who are questioning the value of PennHip, I strongly recommend you read Fred Lanting's book on Canine Hip Dysplasia: http://www.fredlanting.org/freds-books/ He has been studying this problem since 1966, and knows more about it than most veterinarians. OFA is just NOT accurate enough. I found this out the hard way, when my 2 year old bitch failed the OFA exam. She has 3 generations of her pedigree that are dysplasia-free, with either the SV a-stamp or OFA. |
Sunsilver by Lief on 28 December 2009 - 21:24 |
| either way they are just denoting phenotype not genotype so you are going to get dysplastic dogs from normal to normal Pennhip is not going to change that and with the low rate of compliance if it was going to catch on it would have by now |
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