German Shepherd Dog > Should all UK GSD judges be licensed ? (106 replies)
Should all UK GSD judges be licensed ?
by Mackenzie on 28 November 2009 - 12:09
|Should all UK GSD judges be licensed ?|
When looking at the breed in the UK today one has to wonder why the Judges should not be licenced so that their knowledge of the breed can be assessed. The days of appointing friends and others from the beer tent have passed. The are very serious issues that need to be addressed and we have only to look at the photos of the dogs that are being bred today to understand some of the problems faced by breeders in correcting the faults that we see today. The faults that we are seeing have become the norm for judges and breeders alike.
Until the time comes when licensing judges becomes mandatory we will continue to see the breed going down hill. When animals are seen to be winning, particularly by novices, that have so many faults then it is only a matter of time before they become part of the breeding pool. It is for the Judges to stop the practice of giving out prizes and C.C.’s and be more instrumental in removing these animals from such a position.
In my opinion all Judges should be officially licensed with a written exam and a practical examination. The practical side to be judged perhaps by an SV judge in the first instance and until such time as the breed has enough people through the scheme to take on the judging of new applicants.
The licensing should also apply to All Rounder’s who would like to be included on the panel. After qualifying there should be a regular assessment by way of examination every three years. In this way breeders would get more direction in what they need to do to get back to breeding to the Worldwide standard. No GSD show should be judged by unqualified judges. The licensing scheme should also include existing judges.
I am sure that there are contributors out there that would like to see such a scheme introduced and I hope that more contributions come forward on this on the topic.
by Videx on 28 November 2009 - 13:22
|GSD specialist conformation Judges should primarily be drawn from the most successful GSD breeders and exhibitors. That is a fundamental truism. The problems afflicting our breed, are those conjured up in the minds of people without such success in our GSD breed, including the vast majority of Kennel Club members, as well as many within our breed, who make numerous assertions about faults with our breed, all too frequently based on obvious ignorance. Usually emanating from only GSD photographs and comments from other ignorant bystanders, such as taxi drivers, and uncle Tom Cobley and ALL. I know everyone is entitled to an opinion, but the majority of seriously flawed opinions are obviously expressed with simplistic and very limited knowledge and experience of our GSD breed. It takes a lot more than a pair of eyes and a mouth, or a finger and a computer, to formulate and offer a worthy opinion about our GSD breed. I suppose it is best to take the view that opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one, and some appear to have two.|
by JackieJ on 28 November 2009 - 13:44
| We all know you’re got two arseholes David, fits in well with your split personality.|
You can mine anytime.
by bazza on 28 November 2009 - 13:52
|Very true JJ, he has one below his nose and one below his waist, both open and expel crap!!!|
by noddi on 28 November 2009 - 14:37
|Mackenzie,yu have made a good point .i personally feel that all persons wishing to judge at champ.show level should now be obliged to have passed a pratical test on their chosen breed(s).a written test could be taken if necessary,but some people might be able to do it on paper ,but not by the eye.in fact the gsd breed council has an exam one can take ,and i know that quite people have passed and are now awarding CC,s.i dont know why David didnt mention it.Shelia Rankin ,the breed council secretary can inform yu of the details.Bazza ,JJ,I SEE YU ARE NOW ON THIS THREAD MAKING NASTY REMARKS ONCE AGAIN.I,NOW MAKE THAT 3 THREADS.why dont yu go away and play with your toys,like good little boys.and as the saying goes,sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me,so go ahead and slag me off to your hearts content.Carole Spelman Rheinmeister Gsds.|
by Jago on 28 November 2009 - 14:50
Carole, last time I looked this was a free forum and anyone is allowed to make comment as they see fit. Why stick up for DP all of a sudden? Has he promised you a pup from one of his many litters? Or maybe he has promised you can use one of his dogs at stud for free? Stop trying to suck up to DP Carole, it doesnt become you.
by Mackenzie on 28 November 2009 - 15:26
|I would suggest that not all successful breeders exhibitors are suitable for Judging the breed. Quite often it comes to the numbers game in that those with enough desire, time, dogs and money can attend the most shows and therefore achieve success. That has always been the case. There are some people who have been in the breed for many years who for the reasons stated have never achieved the success of producing a champion although they produced many good animals and achieved good results in the limited number of shows they have attended.|
It is also true to say that a photograph is not always the best way to give an opinion but for people who really do know what they are doing they can get a pretty good idea of an animal. Not all the pictures cover up the incorrect backlines, and over angulated animals with cow hocks.
by Videx on 28 November 2009 - 15:56
| JJ = graham martin, Graychelsea GSD from Redditch, a complete 'nobody', mentally ill, his few ex-friends know it, he is on state help for it, unemployable because of it. Care in the community gone mad!. He is a friend of John Robinson CORJON GSD, him with the JRD problems, which he turns a blind eye to.|
bazza & jago, gutlass morons.
Carole Spelman is now observing who attacks who, a simple matter to observe, and she can see your repeated and unjustified attacks on me, your stalking, and your cowardice. I commend her above many others for simply "pointing it out" each & every time.
by Mackenzie on 28 November 2009 - 16:42
|Why is that David Payne and "friends" reduce so many threads to the trash can? For those that want to get at David please direct your comments to his web site. David please do the same to these people and contact them direct.|
There are people here that may want to say something positive rather than keep reading the repetative rubbish that you are engaged in.
by noddi on 28 November 2009 - 17:28
Mackenzie,I applaud yu on your posts.yu speak a lot of common sense and truth and yu have the common sense to see that not all successful exhibitors can also judge correctly.yu have to have an eye for it.i,ve had reasonable success at both open and champ level,under all rounders, english people who judge to german type and foreign judges.i have only bought 2 bitches in.the 1st being Cassie(my foundation bitch)and then a year later a 4 mth.old one from Larry and Anna.all the rest have been animals that I HAVE BRED.so to your question ,NO HAVE NOT GOT A PUP OR HAVE HAD A FREE STUD OFF DAVID.yes i know this is a free forum and anyone can comment,but that IS NOT WOT YU ARE DOING.yu are using this thread to slag people off.HOW DARE YU SUGGEST THAT IM SUCKING UP TO DAVID.i am a person in my own right,actually i am 57 going on for 58,and im known for speaking my mind,even to my superiors when i worked for NAT.WEST BK.,so im no wimp.maybe yu could pay a visit next weekend to Essex Champ Show and speak to me in person and then you,ll find out.yu now been on 3 seperate threads causing trouble.David Payne is only an aquaintance ,as are a lot of other exhibitors.yu really should get your facts straight and not make assumptions.this will be my last post to yu shit stirrers as i really cant be bothered .Carole .
by paulie on 28 November 2009 - 18:17
|I agree with Mackenie, in as much as there needs to be some governing body to sanction the allocation and selection of Judges, as i have advocated many times in various threads on this Database, but feel i am hoping against hope that it will come to pass.|
On his other point, i feel i should mention that we have a perfectly good training scheme for Judges organised by the GSDL / GSDP.
When i completed my GSDL Judges course in 1985 it consisted of four seminars spread over the year, two in a class room setting during the morning, with the afternoon sessions taking place outside , giving our instructors our interpretations of the assembled Dogs.
The third seminar was a lecture in Anatomy given by a Professor from Cambridge University Vet.college.
The final seminar consisted of a written exam, followed by a practical exam in which every student had to judge the same group of animals, and explain their placings to the instructors. As to Mackenzie alluding that there should be SV judges overseeing any future tests, it may interest him to know the names of the instructors in those far off days, they were Brian Wooton, Percy Elliott, and the Allans, Clarissa and Roy, all SV judges.
Regards as always.
by Mackenzie on 28 November 2009 - 18:28
I am aware of the judges training scheme and of those who qualified through the SV. Unfortunately some are no longer with us and at this time possibly too old to help get a scheme moving. However, any Judges training, examination and licensing must come from an established source with real power to make the changes. If testing for judges does become mandatory it would also include the Alsatianists and therefter possibly convert them to the recognised world standard for the breed.
The suggestion of SV judges coming from Germany is, in the early days, to try to avoid passes on the friends and old boys basis. These SV Judges neeed not necessarily come from the Show side alone.
by bazza on 28 November 2009 - 19:15
|NODDI, No offence but above you said " so go ahead and slag me off to your hearts content" Could you please point out where anyone did that before you stuck your paranoid nose into others comments? You have your opinions on DP which you are entitled to, as does everyone else. |
Davey your comments above about Corjon are just about what one can expect from you, LOW. You seem to forget you owned one of the dogs at the centre of all this JRD scare. Of course typical of you , you removed your kennel name from said dog and passed him on to someone else!!!!
Mackenzie, your heart is in the right place, but no amount of judges training, or licensing will change what some judges do on the field. There will always be favour judging, how you change that is beyond me. At a recent show a PUPPY took the CC, now i do not care how good a puppy is this should never happen, do you think had that judge been licensed it would have changed the result? NO WAY. I am sorry to say we will just have to accept what goes on as there is no way to change it,imo.
by Mackenzie on 28 November 2009 - 19:23
|Unfortunately Bazza you are right when you say that favour judging will always go on. However, under a licencing system I think that it will not happen so often once judges realise that they have something to lose and be banned from taking an appointment.|
I agree with you 100% that a puppy should never be awarded a C.C.. To give a C.C. to an underdeveloped animal is ridiculous and, if licensed, a judge should have their license taken away. Can you tell me the show and the Judge please?
by bazza on 28 November 2009 - 19:43
|I do believe it was at our 2 day event, BEST PUPPY, BITCH CC and B.O.B Absolutely ridiculous but hey ho the judges opinion is final!!!|
by Jago on 28 November 2009 - 20:01
Mackenzie - Results can be found www.jaquenetta.com/Show%20Results%202009.htm under the two day event. Favour judging is something that has been going on for a long while now and also why a lot of good breeders have come out of the show scene. Would the licencing system work? IMO I don't think so. Corruption seems to be the norm at many of our shows today unfortunately and I think it is here to stay. Good points you make though.
Carole - You say you are nearly 58 by going by your pathetic excuse for text speak I'd say more like nearly 8. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you but 'YU' as you spell it is actually spelt 'YOU'. Shame I cannot block any posts from you on here so I cannot see them. Your posts hurt my eyes.
DP - Pot calling the kettle black springs to mind with you and your comment about John Robinson. Not all of us have forgotten that you had Rocky who like Bazza has pointed out, was the centre of the JRD scare.
by Mackenzie on 28 November 2009 - 21:18
|Although a number of people think licensing judges will not work at least it is a positive step forward. Doing absolutely nothing is the beginning of the end. When judges have something to lose i.e. License, reputation, money etc , inevitably some change will come for the better. It may not be much at first but change will come. It is no good saying something will not work without trying it, that is defeatist.|
by Videx on 28 November 2009 - 22:03
|bazza, jago, FACTS wrong again. I never owned a dog at the centre of the JRD scare, the dog just happened to be the brother of the mother to CORJON MARK. and then of course the morons jumped in, especially JJ, trying to defend and detract from CORJON MARK in a most amaturish and pathetic manner. |
It warms my heart, that bazza, jago and JJ are afraid of me, they show it very clearly EVERY TIME they negatively comment on me while remaining anonymous. I do not roll over or hide my comments behind anonymity, I am not a coward, be sure of that you bunch of cowardly wimps.
Mackenzie I will STOP making comments such as this when theseanonymous cowards stop initiating attacks on me and mine. You may need some time to fully understand what I have just written, when you do, please don't forget it.
by noddi on 28 November 2009 - 22:25
|JAGO....YES I CAN SPELL CORRECTLY THANK YOU.YU IS A SHORTENED FORM OF YOU ,NORMALLY USED BY THE YOUNGER GENERATION ON THEIR COMPUTERS.SO WHO IS THE DUMMIE NOW.I WISH I COULD DELETE ALL YOU SHIT STIRRERS OFF THESE THREADS AS IMO. YOU ARE ONLY ON HERE TO SLAG MR.PAYNE OFF.I TAKE OFFENCE AT THIS SORT OF TREATMENT AND ITS NO WONDER YOU GET THE SAME TREATMENT IN RETURN.NOW THAT IM STICKING UP FOR MR.PAYNE YOU ARE TREATING ME ALSO WITH THE SAME CONTEMPT.I HAVE BEEN ONTO ANOTHER THREAD INSTIGATED BY HAMZA 166 RE HIS DRAWINGS AND ONCE AGAIN A DOG HAS BEEN SLAGGED OFF BY BAZZA.WHEN ARE YOU LOT GOING TO TAKE A HIKE AND ONLY COME ON THESE THREADS IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY AS OPPOSED TO HURTFUL,SLANDEROUS ALLEGATIONS.YOU KNOW WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.MAY I ASK A QUESTION............ARE YOU JEALOUS OF MR.DAVID PAYNE OR INFATUATED BY HIM.......YOU,RE THE ONE THAT SEEMS PARANOID,ALL YOU CAN THINK OF IS MR DAVID PAYNE.GET A LIFE.THIS IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY|
by bazza on 29 November 2009 - 00:51
|Davey, for someone who does not care about us Anonymous morons, your words not mine, you sure as hell make a song and dance about us. Lets face reality it is not only the anonymous posters who really can't be doing with your crap, many many named users feel exactly the same. You treat them with the same degree of nastiness, as you do with anyone who does not agree with you. |
Noddi, what can i say other than i did not slag off any dog on Hamza's drawing thread, and since i never remove any of my comments it is there for anyone to see. Absolutely no jealousy here my love, i mean who in there right mind would be jealous of the most disliked person in the UK gsd world, are you for real!!! You seem to be more infatuated by him than any one else, i think maybe you need to find someone more worthy of your admiration, after all you must have heard that old saying, FLY WITH THE CROWS, YOU GET SHOT WITH THE CROWS. I also think the youngsters of today just use the letter " u" for the word you, so you are not as young and hip as you thought.
Sorry MACKENZIE, i still maintain it would not work but i am with you on if you do not try you will never really know.