German Shepherd Dog > IS THIS STUD DOG JRD TESTED ????????. (132 replies)
IS THIS STUD DOG JRD TESTED ????????.
by petowner on 19 October 2009 - 14:00
|' IMMENSEE JETSKI AT SONSARAS '. now 4 years old. Has this stud dog been tested for JRD ?. Asking because I was approached at club by someone thinking of purchasing a puppy from a litter not born yet that is sired by this dog. I was briefly told the ancestry and note that the dog is himself sired by a tested carrier dog ZASKO , even worsening the concern is that this dogs Dam is sired by BYGOLY EL DEVINO who I believe is also at risk of being a carrier or worse. The owner of this dog was looked for but not found so hopefully someone will be able to throw some light on this dog , in the meantime I will try to enquire further. I do hope this stud dog is JRD tested clear so that I can give out some good news and not bad news at club this week. Thanks for any fruitful info .|
by bazza on 19 October 2009 - 16:00
|I wish you luck in your search for info, this seems to be a taboo subject. The male Zasko is still being offered at public stud which i find disgusting, if the JRD hype is to be believed. BYGOLY EL DEVINO is involved in many pedigrees, and his offspring are in the breeding stock of several "big" kennels!!! Why don't you ask VIDEX he seems to be the only one with knowledge of this JRD, again best of luck with that too.|
by tigermouse on 19 October 2009 - 17:43
|Having seen zasko in the flesh several times recently I can honestly say that he is the picture of health at nearly 9 years old.|
There has been alot of controversy as to the validity of this test I mean come on its not even a sterile test kit.
As for zasko being offered at public stud he isn't GET YOU FACTS RIGHT Lynn refuses studs for him all the time.
She has used him once or twice I think. (JRD tested clear bitch)
Lynn genuinely loves our breed and has done more than most to improve the bloodlines in the UK.
pity there arn't more breeders out there that are as caring as her.
How many zasko progeny are out there ..... and how many have JRD... I havent heard of any, have you?
by bazza on 19 October 2009 - 17:56
|Try getting your facts right this male is advertised at stud on several puppy selling sights. This male was tested positive for JRD he is nine, how many of his progeny have been tested? Lyn had the dog tested so i take it she must have believed in the test, why then would she continue to use him at stud if he tested positive. I haven't heard of many dogs testing positive, but how many actually test, and accept the results given. I would love to hear from people who have tested their animals, but it seems not a lot do or they are not willing to say. Do you test your dogs Tigermouse for JRD?|
by jaymesie51 on 19 October 2009 - 17:58
|Surely the best thing to do would be to speak to the owner of the bitch that is in whelp to this dog ask them if he is tested if they dont know ask them for the stud dog owners phone number and then take things from there |
by tigermouse on 19 October 2009 - 18:18
No Bazza you get your facts right...
by tigermouse on 19 October 2009 - 18:20
|here is a link to the owner of jetski |
by Mark3 on 19 October 2009 - 18:22
|No, I haven’t heard of any Zasko progeny with JRD and Zasko was used extensively at stud. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. |
If all breeders were as passionate and as caring about this breed and about the breed’s health as Lynn, it would be in a far better state today.
And just because the dog is advertised, it does not mean Lynn will allow him to be used. Approved bitches only.
by tigermouse on 19 October 2009 - 18:31
by Mark3 on 19 October 2009 - 21:09
|Petowner, has Jetski been tested for elbows? I can find no elbows on record. He’s been hip scored 10 |
by Csense on 19 October 2009 - 21:38
|I'm surprised Jetski has been used at stud as there have already been problems with the EL DEVINO line.|
I haven't herd of any Zasko progeny with JRD.
by Videx on 19 October 2009 - 21:53
|JRD does not show any symptoms until the level of "JRD penetration" is probably over 50%. Surely most people know that we humans can survive with ONE kidney. Perhaps not bazza!|
Many dogs with JRD have less than 50% deterioration in their kidney function, and may live normal lives. They will still pass it on to their progeny, at VARIOUS LEVELS.
Think of HD, a litter may contain many different scores. JRD is similar in that offspring may contain different levels of JRD penetration, or %. Many or all showing no symptoms. Much like HD = showing NO limping - that is why we XRAY.
Two particular problems exist amongst many readers towards JRD in GSD.
by bazza on 20 October 2009 - 06:56
|Tigermouse, did you read the above.... Many dogs with JRD may lead normal lives, they will still pass it on to thier progeny, at various levels. You also ask how many have been tested and results not disclosed, i too would like to know. So without knowing how can one determine there is a major problem. Maybe that is why you have not heard of any Zasko progeny with JRD. The owner of this dog may be selective with breeding this dog now, but what about before he tested as a carrier? Please don't get me wrong i am not at all convinced there is a major problem, but if a dog of mine tested as a carrier it would not be used at stud again, end of story. You either test and accept the results because you believe in the test, or you don't test as you do not believe the test is valid. Until breeders all test for JRD, and disclose results with actual names of dogs, we will never know just how bad this really is. Mr Payne, you are right i do not understand all your scientific mumbo jumbo, all your figures, numbers and percentages, nor do i wish to. I do however have an interest in actual cases reported by name, then i will decide if JRD is a major problem and not a figment of your vivid imagination. Of course you would love it if you were correct, and lap up all the credit for bringing this "ticking time bomb" to our attention. That would surely boost your already over inflated ego!!!!!|
by petowner on 20 October 2009 - 08:59
It has been very busy on here since I posted. Not the responses I was hoping for.
by Videx on 20 October 2009 - 09:00
|JRD exists, and it exists in GSD |
ONE major problem with JRD is that when the penetration is over 50% THE GSD DIES!
I have never heard of HD actually KILLING a GSD.
The second major problem with JRD is that it lurks silently undiagnosed at levels under 50% - it can then spread widely and numerically, and if a popular stud dog happens to be a "homozygote" carrier, JRD will quickly saturate our breed.
This not fantasy, it has already happened with several other breeds.
ONE major plus with JRD is: mate CLEAR to CLEAR = ALL OFFSPRING WILL BE JRD CLEAR
I am NOT interested in boosting my ego, believe me if you knew from where I have come from to what I have achieved in my life, and what my children have achieved, you would easily understand that I have no need to boost my ego.
Ignorant people deny the existence of a disease and a diagnostic test. It happened many years ago with Hip Dysplasia. It happens with almost every disease and diagnostic test.
Their attitude is:
I know two GSD kennels that are JRD Clear - Nikonis & Videx
by Videx on 20 October 2009 - 09:44
for scientific information
(you will see German Shepherd Dogs referred to several times)
JUVENILE RENAL DYSPLASIA (JRD)
WORLD INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY ORGANIZATION
Pub. No.: WO/2009/092171
then click on READ HERE
don't miss the 'tabs' near the top of the 'online' document
these take you to different sections
by Videx on 20 October 2009 - 09:50
|Reading some of your posts above, many of you want to STOP a dog being offered at STUD because he has been tested a JRD carrier, and then go on to say you don't believe in the JRD test.|
That is a clear sign of "low intelligence".
If your own GSD have not been JRD tested, they are "potentential JRD carriers" - don't forget that!
I will now write that on my website!
by bazza on 20 October 2009 - 10:14
|Petowner, i am not intent on condeming any individual, unlike yourself in your first post. You should maybe have taken your own advice and dealt with this privately. I do however have a major problem with anyone who does a test, and ignores the results of said test. Mr Payne, i do not deny the existance of JRD, only the extent to which it affects the breed. There must be a massive amount of ignorant( your words not mine) people in this breed, as not many seem to be testing for JRD. Not many accept this test that is available, why? are you saying they are all ignorant? Tigermouse posted above she does not test as she does not believe in the test, is she also ignorant? Petowner did not even know there was a test available but would consider testing, is he/she ignorant? All your close breeder mates who do not test, are you calling them ignorant too? Good for you and Nikonis, but there would have to be a hell of a lot more kennels on that list to convince me JRD is rife.|
by Videx on 20 October 2009 - 10:55
| Many who are JRD testing are NOT publishing their results. Certainly NOT publishing the "carriers".|
I do NOT receive the JRD Test results - they are currently private tests & private results.
The only JRD test results I received or receive are those where the GSD owners agreed for me to receive, and signed for me to receive.
I have been informed of several "JRD Carrier" results by owners, on a strictly confidential basis, and they have "stopped breeding" with the dog, and in some cases re homed them. This avoids the STIGMA on their kennel and stops people like you commenting on them and their kennel. I fully understand their decision, however it stops other breeders identifying carrier lines, and carriers.
This is why I know we have a "potential JRD time bomb" within GSD, and I am "protecting my kennel from it". I will stop writing any more comments on here about JRD, others can make their own decisions and live with them.
I am not interested in convincing you or anyone else. I do care about our GSD breed so I have done what I could do. END OF!
You bazza, Jago, pencil, and other anonymous people will understand FEAR!
by tigermouse on 20 October 2009 - 11:49
IMHO I truly believe that the following should be taken into consideration by doggenes
The test kits should be sterile.
The test should be done by a vet, In conjunction with an identity check. (microchip/tattoo)
Results should be public and a database of results formed.
If a Proper sterile test kit is provided, and the swab taken by a licensed veterinary practitioner, then I will test my dogs.
The fact is that the test kits provided are easily tampered with.
Consider this say one dog in a kennel is tested clear what is to stop someone using this dog over and over again?
The thing I have come to realize is that some breeders will go to any lengths, and we must make it difficult for them to play the system.
Going slightly OT but surly ED is a more pressing issue yet few breeders take this matter seriously enough.
Again with HD and ED some breeders x-ray then don't submit results. It sickens me...
David, there is no need to be rude, I am not a genius and have never laid claim to be one,
and I don't think I am ignorant ... dyslexic yes LOL
But I do think I have a valid point,
and as mark3 said the proof of the pudding.
Eye problems crop up from time to time as well as heart defects. There are tests available but hardly anyone does them and I think JRD falls into this category for me it is not proven to be a major issue...
Any statements I make are purely MY OPINION and I am not trying to influence anyones decision regarding testing.
I have not denied JRD exists I have just questioned the test kits and the extent of the problem