German Shepherd Dog > Is it not possible to have an intelligent, fact based discussion ........... (126 replies)
Is it not possible to have an intelligent, fact based discussion ...........
by Rik on 23 July 2009 - 04:31
|concerning the GSD on this board. Any subject, working, German S/L, W/L even Am. S'L, I enjoy reading and discussing. |
I very much appreciate learning from people with experience, because I am new to German dogs. Molly Graf, Dennis Johnson, Joe Stump, Andrew Masia, Steve from Belgium. every post from these is useful information. I choose my dog food from comments from TeMar Kennel. All very useful.
I read comments from Universal Sieger competitors, learn much from Ravi Iver comments on tracking.
But every thread, comes incredibly ignorant and no experience people. They do not go to Germany, yet they know all concerning German dogs. They even know which dogs should place where.
They have no success with Working, yet know how all must be done.
Am. S/L, they do not show, do not win, but post endless comments how "multi faceted" their dogs are.
So, what do I miss. Are there people here who do anything successful with their dogs. Work, Show, Am. Show.
I don't care. Just want to know there are actually people here who are up early to track their dogs Make the trip to club to train.
At the park daily to train the S/L dog. At the Conformation class to train the Am. S/L.
Or is only people here Xeph, SunSilver, Uber. People who only accomplishment is in the fantasy world of their mind. No work no show, no nothing,. Just endless stupid posts on every thread.
I also breed many great dogs in my mind, and win very much. But in the end, I must put a real dog on a real leash, expend real finances and present to a real judge and accept the judgment.
by GSDPACK on 23 July 2009 - 04:49
|I have a rather weird question:|
"Am. S/L, they do not show, do not win, but post endless comments how "multi faceted" their dogs are."
In the sentence above what does the "multi faceted" mean? I am a foreigner you know?
by Rik on 23 July 2009 - 05:31
|Pack, it means they put forth a dog who does it all, win show Am., Show, German Show, does top work, every thing. In reality the dog they own is nothing and wins nothing. |
I take "multi faceted" from quote from "Xeph" on another thread.
Just talk from ignorant people. I do not care what these people do or the pets they own. But why do they think they are expert in any area GSD.
But every thread, they run from under cover, nipping at the heels of people who actually do things with their dogs.
In the mornings, I track (4 days), then a little obedience (6 days). Home for breakfast for dogs and me. Afternoon is drive work with ball for a few minutes. Evenings, either rag work or to the park for ring training. (2 days a week), also 2 days a week, 200 mile round trip to club
Then, I come here to share time with people who also have some of these interests, and always are these people who do nothing, but expert on everything.
When I have interest in German S/L. I do not learn from internet. I go to Germany, see Sieger Show. Drive around Germany, visit breeders. Sit with SV judges and hear their views and opinions.
After all this, I only scratch the surface. So I pester knowledge people unmercifully, to educate me. Randy Brent, Chris Stump, Andrew Masia, Fred Lanting. I know they tire hearing from me, but every reply, I learn something.
But every thread with value, these incredibly ignorant people, who accomplish nothing with their GSD show up and start to crap on the thread.
by Rik on 23 July 2009 - 09:15
|Bump to the top. |
I will bump this thread to eternity. I know there are people here who do more with the GSD than post.
When confronted with incredible stupidity, I act incredibly stupid.
by SitasMom on 23 July 2009 - 10:04
My husband and I do stuff with our dogs...........every day and every week we go to SchH training. Our dogs are young and the first trials that we entered is Aut 1st.
Our goal is for us to train up 2 SchH3 dogs before we retire in a few years. We're well on our way.
by malshep on 23 July 2009 - 10:29
|Rik what category do you put me in.|
by Sheesh on 23 July 2009 - 11:37
|Rik, I am no expert, don't claim to be by any means. I am a newbie (relatively), and am trying to learn. I understand what you mean about plucking people's brains who have much more experience and knowledge. I also have spoken to several very knowledgeable experienced people who won't dare to post on this board, for fear of misquotes, slander, or otherwise just trouble that they don't need. They would rather just work their dogs. That is not to say that there are not any good voices here, you mentioned a few. I just try to sift through the dirt for the little gold nuggets that will be useful. :-) Plus there is the occasional comedy relief. ;-) I haven't seen Randy on here recently, I hope all is well with him. Theresa|
by Gustav on 23 July 2009 - 13:32
|Rik, you really can't control or worry about the people who post....I stay involved for the many, many, people that email me personally and say that "their" experiences are very similar to what I am expressing and they are glad somebody comes out and voices them. This often leads a meaningful dialogue in which the drama and ignorance isn't present...so stay postive and stick to facts and reality.|
by Rik on 23 July 2009 - 14:02
Rik what category do you put me in.
Sorry,can't mention everyone. I place you with sensible, careful people who make intelligent comments on interesting subjects concerning the GSD dog.
Really, I do not seek to catogorize anyone. I am just appaled by these incredibly ignorant people, who make incredibly ignorant statements on the GSD with no back ground to do so.
sheesh, why concern in being "no expert", no crime there. Never apoligize if you always travel toward knowledge.
I am "no expert" also. a year ago, I do not even know WL/SL.
I set out to learn. Maybe I never do.
Sitsa Mom, I know very well you work your dog. I keep up with your progress to the BH. This is very interesting to me, because this is the journey I now begin.
You make sensible replies to questions from your experience.
Good luck to you and your dog for the BH. My pup is only 9 mo., so we have a little more time.
by habanaro on 23 July 2009 - 16:23
My current dog has a sch3/ipo3 AWD 2 FH hoping to get his FH2
Hoping some day to be rich enough to be considered eccentric
by Slamdunc on 23 July 2009 - 16:32
|Jeff, I don't think you need to add your credentials. Your experience comes through in every one of your posts. Those who have been around a little while know and respect you. |
by Rik on 23 July 2009 - 16:35
|Sorry Jeff, you are now on my people to "PESTER" list for when I need advice. Maybe this takes pressure off the people I use now. |
I am also a USA member and you put out a first class magazine.
Also my next planned show will be the USA event for New Orleans in December.
Congratulations for what you contribute to the GSD in the U.S.
by Xeph on 23 July 2009 - 16:46
|Sure it's possible...when you want things to slant in your direction ^_^ What you want is for people to agree with you, not to have an actual discussion.|
I'm working my dogs in many different events, and training for different levels. Is SchH one of them currently? No. Not possible. But my dogs get worked under gunfire, they're working retrieves, TRYING to start my boy on scent articles and glove work (he's my first trial dog, I've never taught such things before).
The new girl is working with the dumbbell and learning how to focus.
You're never going to like me, my dogs, or what I do with them, which is your perogative, but I do with them what I can as money will allow me to.
I was a USA member. Will be again. I just couldn't afford to renew at the time. My choice was USA membership, or food for myself and the dogs. I chose the latter.
I've learned a lot from Molly (I read a lot of her posts, belong to a couple lists), and several other competitors (in many venues). But they always state things eloquently and without insult. They do not tear apart the dogs of others simply because they can or find it enjoyable.
by habanaro on 23 July 2009 - 16:48
|I can't be of much help with the Show stuff but with the working stuff I can probably always at least point you to the proper person if I don't know. |
Feel free to pester anytime with a dog question
Thanks for the nice comments (Rik and Jim)
by Bob McKown on 23 July 2009 - 18:08
|I find there are alot of good discussions on this board as there is some bull shit as well as some just good old fun stuff, We make life what it is and surrond our selfs with it. |
Some times to find a prince you have to kiss alot of toads.
by GSDPACK on 23 July 2009 - 18:28
|Thank you Rik, |
Because of that one expression i kinda had a hard time to understand..LOL
well I would not recognize world champ in show from a regional champ.. They look the same to me. I get fascinated about the post that ingludes the grades of shoulders. I stare at it and trully I have no clue what the hell I am looking at.. I find it frustrating. I am learning also.
I do not know absolutely anything about A/L dogs.. NOTHING, they look ugly to me and I have no use for them in my world..I like dogs with heart and desire to go out there and work their asses off.
my dog is ok looking according to my friend that has show lines, he is enough good looking for her to consider to actually breed to her females. To me that was a huge compliment. Of course she needs to put some drives in her breeding program, just like some pretty ugly working dogs need some standard so they fing a good working show dog.. it all evens out.
It all about the fun of it... my male is only Schutz 2 i want to put PSA title on him and he is practically ready.. I live in sticks and that SUCKS.. somebody wants to move here. like 20 of you so we can have more trials.. lol
by Elkoorr on 23 July 2009 - 18:48
|I too like great discussions and would love to see more of them. |
I am out with the dogs alot. Have a nervy male who is titled in AKC, and am working with him on the BH and tracking. My young female got her BH 3 weeks ago, is also titled in AKC, and has her TDI. Working on the SCH1 now. I am also co-instructing beginners classes at our (akc) dog training club.
Saw your Silas at the Statesville show and was very impressed. Hope to see you there next year. Oh yeah, I am the silly one who comes with a dark sable w/l bitch. You may have seen me....LOL
by Rik on 23 July 2009 - 19:01
|Pack, start here to understand shoulder:|
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/info/15.html also locate the bones, and look at the "ideal" angle where these bones mate.
Cliff notes version: the shoulder consists of two major bones, the upper arm and the shoulder blade. these bones should be long and approx. equal in length. They should also have the correct angle. forming a joint described in the standard as a "right angle". I don't know that this perfect angle has ever been achieved, usually several degrees more than this.
If the blade is steep, the dog will have more "slope" to his topline and a shorter neck. In show speak someone might say "that dog's shoulder is in his neck". Meaning the blade is too steep.
The upper arm should not only be equally long dut have proper angle.
Look at the picture of "Danny" that I post on another thread. Absolutely beautiful shoulder construction. Look at the point from hi elbow to where the upper arm meets the blade.
Can you see the length. Now compare this excellent length from this joint back and upward to his whither. Can you see that this length nearly matches the length of the upper arm Now try to imagine the angle formed where these two bones meet in the chest area. Very impressive, well at least to me.
If you like, I will show a pic of a "straight" upper arm and bore with more details.
by Xeph on 23 July 2009 - 19:16
|Here, here's a bad front for you:|
by Rik on 23 July 2009 - 19:26
|Xeph is very correct. A poor shoulder. |
The upper arm is not only "straight, but also short. I can not estimate the angle formed. Looks at least 150 degrees to me. I did not do well at all in geometry.