German Shepherd Dog > Is this true about Alpine-K9 in AZ? (138 replies)
by Ibrahim on 18 July 2010 - 15:55
|Jessie James wrote: I'm not saying its true or not because i don't know the kennel. Hate to say it but this is the kind of stuff people get when they don't do research on the breeders.|
Please allow me to differ with you, should anyone research Hans Prager he would get the best he would search for in a breeder and or type of dogs. This time you did not nail the the true core of it.
With all respect
by crhuerta on 18 July 2010 - 15:57
Most knowledgeable breeders and enthusiasts know better than to "absorb" mentally, much of what is posted on any given forum.
Especially the rantings of irate buyers and the personal vendettas of scorned partners and/or associates.
Relax.....most people can use "common sense" and weed through the ignorance......no matter "whom" it concerns.
Reputation & respect are hard earned....." maintaining" it is even harder.
Do not feel the need to battle and litigate here......you already have the respect of many...whether we agree or disagree on opinions from time to time.
"Fiction" is only as real to the mind that chooses to believe it.
This is just my opinion....for what it's worth.
by Slamdunc on 18 July 2010 - 16:34
|Actually, I have met Hans and visited his kennel and home. Every December I go to Scottsdale for a Pancreatic Cancer fund raiser. On my last trip I went and met Hans and saw his facility and his dogs. His Kennel was cleaned and well maintained and his dogs were healthy and well cared for. His home was beautiful and his dogs at the house were impressive to say the least. |
Obviously, "K9 trainer" has an agenda and is doing the usual PDB back handed slander. Gotta love the Internet, you can bash anyone in complete anonymity with out posting all of the facts or the whole story. You can then change screen names and post as several people.
by charlie319 on 18 July 2010 - 20:16
|I have not met Hans Praeger, but have found him to be both knowledegable and considerate in all the in all the interactions I've had, or observed. I"m well impressed with his knowledge and the breeding of the dogs he has in his website and find it extremely farfetched that a breeder/importer of the kind of dogs that appear in his offerings woule dabble in the kind of behavior that this Sonia Berg of Ohio alleges. In a way, I'm glad her name is also out as I doubt I would consider buying anything from a potential source of grief. Luckily, in this country, you are innocent until proven guilty and I'm sure that you are not the first person to have an unpleasant turn of events with this individual.|
If I were you, I'd look into the laws that cover harrassment & stalking as her behavior, if it persists, might land her in court accused of such.
Live & Learn.
by ELM on 18 July 2010 - 20:46
| I don't usually get involved with little squabbles but this made me join today so that I could post a response. I recently bought a pup from Prager at Alpine K9. During my research I asked him if I could come out and visit before I bought a pup from him. His answer was "Yes" My wife and I made the 10 hour drive out to his place and met him and his girlfriend. I was impressed with the cleanliness of his kennels as well as the number of beautiful GSD's he had. While I was there I saw this litter of 13. All of these pups looked healthy, happy and very playful. I can attest that none of his dogs were sick and none of the pups were sick. I chose a beautiful female from his Quint/Erin litter and four weeks later returned with my daughter to pick up our pup. The second visit was just like the first. Very clean with a bunch of healthy dogs on the premise. |
As for the AKC part of this, you have to remember that its not going to happen over night. You are not the only person on this planet that AlpineK9 or AKC is dealing with. I was told by Deb that my papers for my pup would be mailed to me in a few weeks. I received my papers 4 weeks after receiving my pup just like I was told. I have not had any problems registering my pup that I bought from AlpineK9.
It is unfortunate that our society has gotten to the point of trying to get things for free. Hans' guarantee says that he will refund money but you have to return the dog that you bought. Hans has even said in this forum that he offered a full refund but she was not willing to return the dog. Don't return the dog, then don't get a refund. It's a pretty simple concept.
As for AlpineK9, all I can say is go visit and decide for yourself if this is a breeder that you want to purchase from. If you see something you don't like, walk away and go find another breeder. As for me, I had a great experience at his kennel and made the decision to purchase from him and will do so in the future.
by oak34 on 18 July 2010 - 20:48
|Im very glad Prager came on here to give us the other side, these internet accusations can ruin reputations, No one wants thier buisnees aired on internet but the accusations were put out here and if no one responds people think the worst.|
I cant wait till I can visit his kennels I hope they have another seminar with Jiri
by mobjack on 18 July 2010 - 20:56
I'm sure you well know that not everyone can be pleased. There are people out there that no matter what you do, they will talk badly and can never be satisfied. If you are in the process of persuing charges against her though, please be careful what you say on this board and elsewhere on the internet. You wouldn't want to jeopardize your case even by providing information.
I don't believe a word of her story about this pup's condition and I sincerely doubt many people here will. Papers can take time and it seems she doesn't understand that.
As for MHO, when I start actively searching for a new dog, I will be contacting you. I have referred many people to your kennel over the years and will continue to do so without hesitation.
I agree with Robin, Jim and the others, this woman obviously has an agenda for some reason and it has backfired on her. Don't give it a second thought on this board.
by Jeff Oehlsen on 18 July 2010 - 22:14
| Hans. It is nice that you took the time to show the world that there are just nutty people out there looking for a freebie.|
I have never heard anything but good things about you, and your dogs. I wish you would post more often, as you could really help a lot of people breed better dogs. : )
by troublelinx on 19 July 2010 - 01:38
|So k9 trainer what do you think? |
Judging from everyones responces...
Is this true about Alpine-K9 in AZ?
Here is what I think
I despise people who spread slander without provocation. It is obvious that you have no further responces now that you have been outed.
I think that you are a nut and I feel sorry for the person married to you if you are.
I have no use for you.
by Red Sable on 19 July 2010 - 01:43
|Ditto what Bazza and the others said. I'm sorry you had to deal with this Hans, but as always you do it with class. I'd also love to have one of your pups, maybe someday!|
All the best. :)
by Pharaoh on 19 July 2010 - 02:04
|When I bought Pharaoh, he was in the first American born litter from both parents. Lots of steps from pink papers, besheinigen, to DNA etc. etc. etc.|
There is a ton of paperwork and at any time the AKC can lose paperwork and DNA and then you have to do it over. Maybe breeder is also not the super star of paperwork. Especially when AKC loses things and it has to be done over. We were not all born to be bookkeepers and accountants.
It was just short of a year before I got Pharaoh's AKC registration. This was not a surprise as I was kept informed. I never complained (maybe a itty bit of whining) and I certainly did not bad mouth her. I did keep in touch and asked for updates by email.
Litters after that first one were easier as all the hard work had been done.
Also, how can you blame your breeder for the pup getting giardia. It is everywhere. It falls from the sky in bird droppings. It is no big deal, two courses of Panacur C and that's it.
She is either a whacko crybaby or a scammer. I think it is the latter.
my sympathies to you Hans,
by CrysBuck25 on 19 July 2010 - 02:47
|I don't know Hans either, but from what I have read, he has always struck me as a wonderful person. I'm sure that there have been problems between him and the occasional customer; having dealt with customers in a retail setting, and in other facets of our service business, there are some people that you just can't please, no matter how perfect you are. To them, you are good for nothing, and they will put you down where and when they can, just to hurt you because they don't like you.|
I have dealt with a few like this...I wouldn't take someone's word for their experience, as I have been on both sides of the transactions. Some of these people, I do believe, have a screw loose and find pleasure in trying to put others down, causing trouble for them. If that makes them happy, fine, but it's a shame to do what they do, to people who actually know their business, as Hans does.
Someday, I plan to go to Arizona, my home state, to take care of a minor personal legal issue in Phoenix, and while I'm there, I hope to be able to visit Alpine K9 and spend some time with Hans and his family and dogs. It would be a pleasure to do so, and I look forward to that visit.
by Kalibeck on 19 July 2010 - 02:53
|I have never met Hans, but have always been impressed with his extensive knowledge of the breed. And I have heard others who have been to his facility praise him for his immaculate facility, & for his incredible dogs. I'd love to own a dog from Hans, or let him pick an import for me, should I be in the market in the future. He took the time to help me with a problem I was having, for free, without being solicited for help, but just because he was good of heart. As Sunsilver said, there are folks here that you trust after 'talking' with them for so many years. Hans is one of them. jackie harris|
by Kalibeck on 19 July 2010 - 02:57
|And I second what Crys said, too, some people just want to hurt those that try to help them. Been done that way myself, recently, on my job. What was it Jeff said...."Some people are just bat-shit crazy"? LOL, couldn't agree more! jackie harris|
by FHTracker on 19 July 2010 - 03:02
You have beautiful dogs and I often read your opinions on these boards closely as you always have intelligent things to say.
If I may be allowed and question/curiosity?
You listed out the steps you are taking to register the female and the litter, all of which takes time but why are you already selling the female on? If you get an offer for her, before you have her registered in your name, won't that make things even more lengthy in terms of transfering her paperwork?
Also, why did she 'wash out' of your breeding program? She seems a nice female.
by GSDtravels on 19 July 2010 - 04:21
|Hans ... nuff said.|
by BMartin on 19 July 2010 - 13:01
My male's sire was bred by Hans and I have spoken with him on a couple occasions, mostly by email, regarding his pedigree and history. Hans was very professional, curtious, and patient. I can verify the quality of dogs he produces and his level of committment to the breed and his breedings. Long after the dog leaves his care, he continues to support and advise the dogs new family. While many breeders claim to do the same, not all follow through. When the time comes for me to add a new dog to my K9 family, there is no doubt in my mind that Hans will be one of the breeders I will speak with. Keep up the good work Hans!
by Prager on 19 July 2010 - 16:36
To answer your questions.
1. No it does not make it harder to register the pups. We had Bryta during the whelp and that is all AKC cares about.
2. No Bryta most definitely did not wash out. Let me explain.
There are 4 kinds of breeders by type: A) Back yard breeder Breeds anything to anything without any knowledge or consideration of bloodlines, types, problems, qualities,....and so on. Does it with love but does a lot of emage to the breed.
B) Puppy mill breeder. Breeds anything to anything without any knowledge or consideration of bloodlines, types, problems, qualities,....and so on. Does it without love of the dogs and does it JUST for the money.
C) Commercial breeder. Good commercial breeder will select or get someone to select for him quality breeding pair of strong genetics which matches properly in dove tail style. ( Compensates problems on Sire side with virtues on Dam side and vice versa.) He / She then breed these 2 dogs for profit and consequentially providing quality dogs to public and is spreading good genes into genetic pool. There is nothing wrong with this type of the breeder even so they often catch grief that they do it "just" for money. I'd say to that that we all need to make money and I do not think that there are breeders doing it "just" for money unless they are puppy mills. But here I am talking about GOOD breeders.
D) Blood line breeder. Blood line breeder is a breeder who is concerned with developing and advancing certain bloodline. Once I was asked which of our studs we would like to have in olden days as a top working dogs. I talked to Jiri about it and we agreed that all our studs would surpass the dogs in "old days". We are now preserving the traits of these olden days dogs, but we are also trying to make them more consistent, reliable, genetically stronger, sturdier and trying to eliminate genetic problems and so on while preserving the original qalities of the old dogs which we loved back then and stil love them now.
There are amateurs Bloodline breeders and there are commercial Blood line breeders. I am commercial bloodline breeder. What does it mean. I love what I do so much that I have turned my hobby into full time business. I am not getting rich on it (Believe me) but I need to make enough money to support my "bad habit" of breeding dogs. I am well educated in Engineering Geology and I could make good money
by 1doggie2 on 19 July 2010 - 16:36
|It is a shame Hans even had to come on here an defend himself. The poster should know this is a very small community, and there is no way they will allow a good breeder to be trashed on this board. |
If that were my puppy I would pay for shipping also, just to get him outta there! Kudos to you, Hanns!!!!!!!!!
by Prager on 19 July 2010 - 16:54
|I guess I got cut off. Here is the conclusion to my last post. |
Sometimes I think that I should go work in convenience store somewhere in Alaska. I would make more money and have more peace.
I have 3 types of dogs here. My personal dogs which will never go anywhere. Then I have breeding and genetically extremely valuable dogs which help me to develop my bloodline (and there is Bryta). And then there are to ones which I lovingly call "the old and ugly" . They also never go nowhere and stay with me for duration.
There is limit to the amount of the dogs I can care for and afford to keep. Thus when I get my genetics from the breeding dogs I sell them to good home or to another usually good commercial breeder.
Bryta most definitely did not "washed out" She provided me with supper female pup named " Fire ". Fire will carry Bryta's blood for me. Bryta will either be sold or if not then she will stay here and be part of my commercial breeding . She will live in my house and eventually will get the old and ugly club membership card.
I hope that this explains the misconception. :)))