German Shepherd Dog > Sch German Shepherd...No Natural instinct to protect family!!!! (92 replies)
by Mrk on 27 May 2010 - 01:48
| Bu Inu - |
i may not be born in the usa or have perfect english and grammar but i still got the point across. now you want to change subject and jump on the way i type? i will end of my response to your post future post here.
by YogieBear on 27 May 2010 - 02:28
|Mrk is the guy that went out with the prom queen and woke up with the toothless waitress.....You're a fool....it probably is best to just not respond. But I take offense of you lumping all GSD in with yours,. |
You looked really hard at my avatar to see that he is in a fence.. He is a mighty being and the fence- so far back... The fence is just a place to relax with.no worries....just relaxing....nothing expected of him...
Natural protection? - I am not sure how you define that - MRK - is that a dog that is frightened and barks at everything or bites in fear - or a dog that is sure of himself - or a yappy little dogs that bites at your heels and when you stomp at him he runs with his tail inbetween his tail? Some bark in fear - is that what you wish?
The fathers that flew the jets as well as the fathers before them had high enough IQ's to education their offspring - I think those fathers with the High IQ realized that their offspring would not successeed with out the education that they had. Or they would be the ditchdiggers of the world with out that education.. Just the IQ alone with out education would end up null and void. Only a fool of a father would think that just their genes alone would get them to the same place they were in life.
I don't need my dogs to protect. even though they do.. I got a shot gun name Bertha that has your name on it if you wish to enter..... Zelda is inside and she will say hey at the door as well.... In fact, you touch my dogs - my Bowie knife will do a meet and greet. But you know - I think each and everyone of my dogs would die for me - I feel the same for them. We have a bond.
I think that the animals take on the personality of their masters - the ones that stay true -the ones that have a sense of being - the ones that are brave
-the ones that are sure of themselves and the ones that are the protectors - they all have the heart of their master
Your dogs are a reflection of ones own soul....
The others just pee on the feet of their visitors.
by Mrk on 27 May 2010 - 03:50
you started with the father jet airplane stuff and i elaborated on it. are you embarrassed over your failed analogy so now you talk trash. prom queen toothless waitress? be more creative and at least insult me with something new...not something you heard from somwhere hahahaha
people who give material things names have psychological issue. wackos like you should take their psych meds before responding to any post.
may you and bertha have many beautiful baby bullets together you.
i have a zelda inside my home too. i play it everyday on the wii.
by Bu Inu on 27 May 2010 - 04:16
Excellent post there YogieBear!
by VomMarischal on 27 May 2010 - 04:47
|On dogs and their innate ability to understand what humans want.....|
by Royal1 on 27 May 2010 - 05:28
|Hi! to all, this is interesting thread.|
I have a german shepherd, his parents were not SCH3 dogs. He never got proper trainning by me because I really did not know how to train a dog correctly. He never bark at people when they pass by my property, unless they got to close. He was the most freindly people dog I ever known and everybody loved him because he was NOT mean dog or ever showed aggression to no one. I was thinking that he will not protect me.
One time I took him for walk on the leash, while I was walking I met a person and I started talking to him about GSD's, my dog simple ignore him and then showed sign that he is friendly - which is very true, so the guy felt comfort talking to me. And then that poor fellow started moving his hands quickly while explaining his story and by mistake this fellow got to close to me while talking and moving his hands. Suddenly my GSD barked and showed aggression to this guy while I was talking. I never seing my dog do that. I was shocked by surprise on his behavior.......
by poseidon on 27 May 2010 - 12:00
Perhaps your dogs do lack the natural instincts of GSDs to be protective and wary of strangers. Have you taken them for assessment as regards their temperament? and what is the pedigree of your dogs?
I sense you are venting your frustration with your current dogs but they are now aged 3 years and 5 years old. Either accept what you have or find them suitable homes. I am sure they will make fantastic therapy dogs.
I believe in future you will benefit more from your research in finding the right breeders for your needs as well as the appropriate training required rather than bashing all GSDs.
by steve1 on 27 May 2010 - 12:34
My Fluffy soft looking Goran, will not make a sound if you pass by the house. If you however come onto the property he will bark to warn me of you being there
If i let you in the garden where his Pen is and i let him loose with me there he will look at you and come up to sniff etc.
if i say all is okay he will be alright, However if i put him back in his Pen and lock him in he will be fine and not bark because you are in the Garden with me there,
But if you go over to his Pen and try to stroke him he will not make one sound but your arm will be in his mouth with him trying to take you through the Bars, That is a controlled Dog in his own environment, and yours would i expect do the same with training But if you cannot find the time or incination to do it then do not blame your dogs
by charlie319 on 27 May 2010 - 12:38
In regards to your quote from Wiki: "Shepherds have a loyal nature and bond well with people they know. However, they can become over-protective of their family and territory" That is a true statement I'm sure that if you took the time to bond with your dogs, instead of looking at them as protection mechanisms, something might click there. These are smart animals and they know when they are apreciated and when they are not.
I'd recommend that you take up the offer of those here who wouldunburden you from these unwanted dogs and get yourself a couple of trained Presa Canarios. That would seem to be a bit more of your taste in temperament for dogs. However, I'd recommend you to be nice to them...
by dwchastain on 27 May 2010 - 16:51
I am not sure what the intent of your original post was but clearly it was not to have a productive discussion about your situation. People who train dogs for Schutzhund are very passionate about the sport and their dogs, partly because it takes a huge time commitment (roughly 2000 hours) just to get to the SchH I level. Anyone who has spent any time at all training dogs knows that every dog is different and as such requires different training methods. I mention this because you are completely missing what is important here with your gross generalizations. Each dog, even from the same parents, has its own personality and character traits. There is by no means a guarantee that dogs who have successfully competed at a high level in Schutzhund or been police or military K9s will produce puppies suited for the work their parents did. The guarantee you do have is that these parents will have a much better chance of producing puppies with the confidence and attitude that will allow them to be successful as competitors or working dogs in law enforcement.
Rather than attacking the breed or the sport of Schutzhund you might try asking if there is a way to get your dogs to perform the way you want them to. There are clearly some very knowledgeable people responding to your post, many of whom I guarantee have trained or at least seen defense drive brought out in dogs that seem to have none.
The truth is that any dogs first instinct is to protect themselves. They have two choices. They can either fight or run. When your acquaintance climbed on your fence your dogs did neither because they did not feel threatened. This is a sign of confidence. The question is do you want a burglar alarm so you can defend you and your family or do you want a dog that will defend them for you? If your answer is you want a dog to defend your family then one of the most important things to look for is confidence. Some confidence is natural and some has to be developed. Like any person if you put a dog in a learning situation where they can be successful they build confidence and learn what you expect of them. Based on what you have said it appears your dogs have the tools but they need to be taught what is expected of them. Like in the pilot analogy, the kids have the basic tools, intelligence, etc. to be pilots but they still have to learn how to fly the plane.
You have an opportunity to end your frustration, which I assume was the reason for your post, and end up with exactly what you wanted, protection for you and your family. But, you will have to be willing to listen to the message rather than shoot the messenger.
by Red Sable on 27 May 2010 - 17:42
Thank you for your common sense and helpful response Poseidon. I agree.
by GSDfan on 27 May 2010 - 17:59
|Dwchastain....outstanding post!! i couldnt have explained it better!|
by jade on 28 May 2010 - 19:38
|what would capt max say about any gsd. that showed no inherent signs to protect.his master or his territory...|
by majestic10110 on 28 May 2010 - 20:08
Most all Sch dogs are trained to go for a sleeve, a few things need to happen to get them to personal protection stage and this hasnt happened with your two.
Your two have trust of Humans.
Basically the first stage of protection training is to teach the dog through a process called agitation that not all humans can be trusted, so a tied back or caged dog will be intimidated in a controlled threat by a human. Once this process is done it cannot be undone. So for most homes its not required as the sight of your shepherds will deter most people.
Speaking from experience as i have a civil dog, it creates a liability in a way and you have to be extra careful i.e tell people the rules regarding the dog i.e dont talk to him, dont look at him, dont pat him, just ignor
To have a dog like this involves stress, so think hard before flicking the one way switch.
All the best
by Judy P on 28 May 2010 - 22:15
|Mrk as I said before I will gladly take these two dogs anytime.|
by Royal1 on 30 May 2010 - 05:37
|I would lile to explain about show line dogs!|
My Uncle told me a story about show line dog!
Their was one person had a show line dog that never bark at anyone, always very calm and you would never here her voice, he thought it was useless dog that he only kept her as a pet dog but not a protective dog.
Well ones upon time, owner and his freind left for work I belived, but then they forgot something in the house. So the owner said go to my house and get what we left in the house, so his freind said ok.
Well, the freind got into the house, the useless show dog let his freind into the house with no problem. But as soon he picked up what they forgot in the house and he try to leave the house and go outside. This useless show dog corner him in the corner started showing her teeth and would not let him move and get out. She did let him in but she did not let him out of the house until owner came back looking for his freind, wondering what is the delay about; since his freind did NOT come back while owner was waiting for him.
by bea teifke on 01 June 2010 - 02:31
when you buy a puppy from a litter , not all will be top watch dogs, some will be basic pets, i have one great watch dog and one that does not care. it also has to do with there temp. and if you have done any training.
some also have natural instinct.., sounds like you have nice pets.. i love the show lines, they work well for me...
by blair built gsd on 01 June 2010 - 05:41
|Just like my old grandfather would say "To train a dog you have to be smarter then the dog" words to live by.|
by Marcelitaz on 01 June 2010 - 18:23
|I enjoy this article!!|
This is the translation of an article written by Cesar Guzman (sorry for my mistakes, my native lenguage isn´t english) .
The communication between dog and man: communication, hierarchy and status
To understand our dogs, we must take account of their origin, behavior patterns and evolution. ... Of their ancestors to become the animal that is today.
Nature has given to all dogs, whether it be race, a series of behaviors that are proper. That is, all dogs descended from wolves, (today, the majority of authors and scholars, agree, as both species are almost equal, matching their DNA sequences in 99.8%) and the evolutionary period until our days is relatively small, so there are a number of behaviors and patterns of natural and innate behavior that remain unchanged in the dogs and that both professionals and owners we know how to interpret and take to educate and / or train them.
The dog communicates his mood, desires, intentions, needs ... combining movements of different parts of your body (look, overall body posture, tail position, mouth, lips and ears, bristling hair, issuance of various shades Bark, moans, howls and growls ...)
One of the most remarkable qualities of the canines is their great ability to communicate, not only to communicate them clearly but also to interpret expressions, gestures, sounds, chains ... etc events of those around him.
For example: When your dog hears the sound of keys, coupled with the busy routine when we go out, immediately becomes agitated and the exit points and when you look at it with a smile, comes happily to caress him, and if you face serious note, remains where it is looking away, carefully sneaks, or submission to release you communicating about a lick of mind ... etc
Is to draw this great capacity to correctly interpret our gestures, how to act ... for an animal that is born to live, communicate, cope ... between individuals of the same species, learn to coexist with humans. To achieve this goal without fail we have to give a consistent education that takes into account their original behaviors.
The owner intends to train your dog without exercising "authority" (eye! Authority is not equal to abuse), which is actually doing is giving to educate.
Just keep in mind that the dog if they live in groups, establishing their relationships and communicate with other members of one form or another, depending on their status within the herd. The individual alpha, gives effect to their rights and has its obligations, which is to exercise authority over the rest of the group. Similarly beta individuals, exercise their rights and obligations, behave and communicate in a different way if they relate to individuals who are below them in the ranks, if they do it with the alpha or those found in upper levels . (well, we see individuals beta, when alpha is not present, exercising them, move with the high tail, upright ears, make marks with the leg raised ...., however when the individual enters the scene alfa group , tail and ears down, avoiding a direct look in the eye and make pee squatting, as do females .- Ultimately communicate differently depending on the scale they occupy and that individual is associated)
When dogs are part of a group of people, must accept being the bottom rung of the ladder and simply compete with individuals of their own species. As an example I am going to put mine ... always seen from the point of view of my dogs:
by Marcelitaz on 01 June 2010 - 18:33