German Shepherd Dog > Proposed Accredited GSD Scheme (UK) (39 replies)
by jaymesie51 on 17 May 2009 - 21:19
|pencil what kennels are you on about and who says they dont support this i think its more you dont support it because its over your head imo great proposal and i hope it is accepted by all the breed clubs and therefor will be passed at the BC meeting.|
by pencil on 17 May 2009 - 22:33
well sue b and jim h:
as you both are clueless let me help you out.the same 4 kennels that never signed the breed split petition.
there are of course more than 4, in fact there are many more.but if the BIG 4 dont sign, you have no chance of getting change.
by Videx on 18 May 2009 - 05:55
|pencil: your opinion counts for nothing. Whatever you write on here is seen for what it is, negative comment from a loser. You are clearly someone who has failed in life. A miserable little toad, who wants others to feel the same misery. You have even failed in that, because your comments on this board are treated with contempt, just as you are treated by those you mix with during your life. You are simply a lowlife, and you cannot change or escape from it! Contempt is what you deserve.|
by myfanwy on 18 May 2009 - 06:56
|VIDEX YOU MAY BE RIGHT ABOUT PENCIL. !!|
I HAVE READ THROUGH ALL HER POST AND THEY ARE ALL NEGATIVE AND DESTRUCTIVE.
by Sue B on 18 May 2009 - 09:35
|Myfanwy, who said pencil was a HER?!! You might be wrongly insulting my fair sex !! Have you not considered 'IT' might be a HIM?? Then again 'IT' sounded more like IT !! lol|
Jim, like you I still dont know who the Top 4 Kennels are, then again Pencils Top 4 would probably differ from mine anyway even if I could decide who they were. After all i'm Numero Uno of course and I SUPPORT THE SCHEME !! LOL
PS - Anyone who considers themselves a Top Kennel and does not or cannot support this scheme must also be a Top Puppy Farmer.
by andria1r on 18 May 2009 - 09:36
I am new to this but I think it is a great idea for the breed, and for us to move forward in our beloved breed. We need people who really care for the breed to back this 100% and not be negative about the future.
by missbeeb on 18 May 2009 - 09:54
It's an IT... for sure! I see a cave dweller, Gollum like.........................Preciousssssss!
by pencil on 18 May 2009 - 11:15
sue b: miss beeb:videx: et al.
sue b a top kennel ! how silly.
by Sue B on 18 May 2009 - 11:39
Andria newbies always welcome, especially ones like you!!
Missbeeb you paint such a perfect picture of an 'IT' , well done!
by myfanwy on 18 May 2009 - 11:46
|I APLOIGIZE TO ALL CONCERNED MORE SO ANY LADIES I MAY HAVE OFFENDED.|
IT WAS A SLIP OF THE PEN-CILS.
by jaymesie51 on 18 May 2009 - 12:11
|pencil it is you who is the devious one you make statements you can never back up and another thing just because you say the big 4 some people might see their big 4 different from yours but of course like always you are all mouth no balls and most definately no lead in your pencil,, this scheme has all the credentials needed to be a success and i trully hope that all breed clubs endorse it i am also sure that all club members could afford say a tenner each to help it on its way not much to ask when you consider what it brings to this breed,, we all know people who just beed anything to anything just for the money well these people would find it very hard to move their pups if there stock was not accredited now that is just one of the reasons why this scheme would help our breed no end and there are lots more|
by missbeeb on 18 May 2009 - 12:31
Is it possible that you really are such a dullard, Pencil? Devious utterings... lol, lol; it'ssss nasssty precioussss!
It doesn't matter who the top kennels are, or whether or not they support this proposal... it will be a majority decision... that's democracy! Your idea (do you have ideas?) of the top 4 and mine, may well differ!
Mmmmm... I'm not too bothered about upsetting people, whoever they are... if that's what they or a given situation requires. What an odd way of thinking, Pencil... did I "hear" you pledge £20?
by Videx on 18 May 2009 - 13:04
|When the GSD Breed Council adopt this "accredited GSD scheme" - I pledge £20 from VIDEX GSD Kennel, and £10 for each of the TOP FOUR Kennels in the United Kingdom, whoever they may be. TOTAL from me = £60|
by Sue B on 18 May 2009 - 13:28
|Don't be silly missbeeb, even if leadless did pledge £20 who would we collect IT from?? lol|
Jim h, You are absolutely right but dont forget it is not the pups that are Accredited but their surveyed parents. It is imperrative we all understand and get our heads around this one, the KC scheme Accredits the breeder, the BC Scheme will Accredit the parents (providing they have passed a BC Survey). Pups cannot be Accredited until they are over 18mths of age and pass a BC Survey in their own right. On the other hand it is a known fact that some KC Accredited Breeders can breed from ANYTHING because NO HEALTH TEST IS MANDATORY, neither is any check on Character, Coat colour or type, testicles, dentition or any number of other things, which we all know are checked under a BC Survey.
When we register a litter with the KC we select the endorsement 'Progeny not to be registered' , all puppy owners are told about this prior to sale, then at the time of sale the endorsement on the KC reg is pointed out to the owner before they pay for the pup and at the same time they are given a contract to sign explaining under what circumstances we would be prepared to release the pup from the Endorsement , if the owner does not want the pup under these circumstances then that is ABSOLUTELY FINE by us they simply dont get one !! One of the conditions of the contract is for the animal to be released for breeding it must be 2yrs of age and have passed a BC Survey class 1 or 2 as suitable for breeding. Thereby we have been regulating the ONLY WAY ANYONE could breed with a KASSIEGER for YEARS and this has been our way of protecting our breed from unscrupulous puppy farmers!! And you dont have to take my word for it, just ask anyone who has ever got a pup from us - whether they be pet or show person it makes no difference they are all treated the same. Furthermore I place the same endorsements on ALL THE LITTER , even the ones I intend keeping myself because until they are proven to be suitable to be bred from I dont even release the ones I keep either.
IF ALL REPUTABLE BREEDERS DID THIS, THE BC SURVEY SCHEME WOULD TAKE OFF LIKE A ROCKET and quite frankly if you support the scheme then it would be ludicrous to sell a puppy to anyone without placing this endorsement on the KC Reg with these same conditions!! At least then you would BE PROVING TO YOUR NEW PUPPY OWNER WHAT YOU MEAN BY ACCREDITED PARENTS (as opposed to Accredited pups) !!!!
Just another idea for you all to chew over.
by missbeeb on 18 May 2009 - 13:53
Why Sue, it would be in small change, wrapped up in an old fisssssssh skin and delivered in the dead of night to your door! LOL
by tigermouse on 18 May 2009 - 13:54
|sue i totally agree :)|
by violet on 18 May 2009 - 16:34
|just a quick query as i'm fairly new to all this, i do not breed yet . I think the idea will work, but when it comes to the breed survey of deciding which dog can be accredited for breeding purposes..surely you'll need more than one person to do this and i'm worried it could end up like in showing where some judges prefer a certain look etc. With the fairly large difference in looks between show and workingline gsd's in this country..how do you pick what is suitable?? is it a points scheme? and how do you check someone is not passing a dog because it is their friend etc? If you go by the FCI standard again some people interpret the standard in different ways, so how can you guarantee consistency in this? i'm not trying to pick it apart, just for more in depth knowledge as i would like to breed in the future and would be interested to use this scheme if its useful|
by Sue B on 18 May 2009 - 19:59
|Hi Violet, please see Guide to entrants of the GSD Breed Council Survey details below it might help to answere some of your questions.|
GUIDE TO ENTRANTS OF THE GSD BREED COUNCIL’S ADULT BREED SURVEY
1. Complete and sign entry form before returning it by the appropriate date to the Host Club. Ensure that the fee is
enclosed, as no classification will be issued unless fees are paid in full. If a copy of the Survey is required a S.A.E
must also be included. Only dogs of eighteen months and over on date of Survey may be entered for classification.
2. ON THE DAY REQUIREMENTS
(a) Dog as defined on the entry form (b) Pedigree of the dog (c) KC Registration certificate and Tattoo or micro-chip
certificate (d) BVA hip status certificate and/or proof of foreign hip status (e) Proof of Idexx Haemophilia test
(applicable to males only) (f) Evidence of Working Qualifications (if applicable) must be provided
IN THE EVENT OF ANY OF THESE DOCUMENTS BEING UNAVAILABLE ON THE DAY THE SURVEYOR WILL
NOTE THIS ON THE SURVEY FORM. THE SURVEY CERTIFICATE WILL NOT BE ISSUED UNTIL COPIES OF
MISSING DOCUMENTS ARE LODGED WITH BREED COUNCIL SECRETARY.
3. In the case of missing teeth due to accident it is the responsibility of the owner to provide veterinary evidence.
4. ON THE DAY PROCEDURE
(a) Report to the administration area and present all relevant documents
(b) Collect Survey sheets and report to measuring area
(c) Report to main area for Survey
(d) Be available when required for gun-test etc. Owners will be required to handle their own dogs during the gun test and
Recommended Classifications will be announced by the end of the event when the Surveyor will be available to
6. CLASSIFICATION GUIDE LINES
a. DENTITION: Must have a full and correct mouth.
b. HIP STATUS: Up to and including a total score of 20 (males & females) with not more than 12 on one hip.
c. SIZE: To allow 3.5 cms above the ideal height i.e up to 66 cms (males) & 61 cms (females)
CLASS ONE (minus)
Males which are over 66cms but below 68cms and females that are 61cms but below 63cms
but are otherwise excellent animals may be given CLASS ONE (minus). Ensure that this is
clearly noted on the Survey Form.
a. DENTITION: Allow up to two P1 missing OR one incisor missing OR one P2 missing OR one double P1.
Outside of this range will mean an automatic fail.
b. HIP STATUS: Up to and including a total score of 20 (males & females) with not more than 12 on one hip.
c. SIZE: Males up to 68cms. Females up to 63cms.
CLASS TWO (minus)
Males that are over 68cms and females that are over 63 cms but otherwise fall within the
parameters of Class Two may be given Class Two (minus).
7. COPY OF SURVEY SHEET & CERTIFICATES
These will be sent later by the Breed Council secretary providing a S.A.E had been supplied.
The Host Club reserves the right to provide an additional Surveyor, if numbers warrant it, without prior notification
to entrants. N.B. NO DOG MAY BE WITHDRAWN AFTER THE SURVEYOR HAS COMMENCED ITS
SURVEY (EXCEPT IN AN EMERGENCY)
It is the intention of the Breed Council to publish the Survey reports in the following year’s Survey/yearbook, the cost of
printing will be included in the entry fee charged by the Host Club. Owners who wish their dog’s photograph to be printed
with the report should supply a recent photograph of the dog to accompany the Survey form. The details of the dog should
be clearly printed on the reverse side ensuring that the surface of the print is no
by violet on 19 May 2009 - 10:22
|thankyou sueB it was very informative and i can happily see there could be no cheating the system. Thankyou :)|
I think this is great and will help improve the GSD quality immensely but of course you'll still get those breeders who do not take part. Does it take into acount coat length? as i know long coats are considered a fault yet alot of people reallly like them..say if the dog got class1 on everything but had a long coat would it be a class1 minus?
by Sue B on 19 May 2009 - 11:27
Glad it was of help to you. As it stands at the moment a long coat would not be able to pass the breed survey as a long coat is not considered to be a suitable coat for a working dog, however it may alter slightly in the future for I am aware that there are moves within the SV to consider changing the standard to allow long coats to pass an SV korung providing an undercoat is present, which as we know is an important for both Insulation and water proofing and both these weathering factors are an absolute necessity for the general health and well being of a working dog who could be spending most of his day and/or night out in the 'field' (whatever torrain that 'field' may be).