German Shepherd Dog > Eastern European lines German Shepherds (117 replies)
Eastern European lines German Shepherds
by Shtal on 07 January 2010 - 04:16
Large Height is preferable.
Male Height: 26 -30 inches
Females Height: 24 - 28 inches
This breed was created in 1930 as a working dog!
Eastern European Shepherds was created from German Shepherds....
The first standard which has formed the breed type of East-European shepherd was approved in 1964 by the Cynologic Council of the Ministry of Agriculture of the USSR.
Any feed back about this old standard size campare to modern size German Shepherds.
The East European Shepherd breed was developed from the German Shepherds bought to Russia at the beginning of the century. Starting from 1904 the breed was used as a police and nursing dog. By 1941 in the USSR already existed several types of the German Shepherd. After the war the breed was subject to careful and systematic work. The whole family lines were restored and new breed families were created. Breeding was characterised by absolute lack of contacts with foreign specialists. In Russia, the breed was given the formal name of Â«East-European ShepherdÂ». As a result of intensive and extended work a new type of the German Shepherd was developed. This type was characterised by being larger, harmoniously built, strong, dry and well-defined muscles, sturdy bone structure and well-balanced character with a confident demeanour.
The German and East-European Shepherds have common origin, yet feature different exterior and behavioural traits. The East-European Shepherd is rather silent while on duty, which makes this breed perfect as a guard or watch dog. Modern pedigree East-European Shepherd has never become yet another Â«fashionableÂ» Â«decoratingÂ» breed due to the fact that breeders strongly appreciate this dog for its unique working qualities. Numerous professional dog trainers and dog-breeders prefer the East-European Shepherd breed for its reliability, loyalty and intelligence.
Being perfect jumpers, the shepherd dogs are fond of barriers and obstacles. The training exercise is probably the most entertaining task for them. Thus during the training this breed demonstrates a keen interest, is far from being stubborn, trying to execute all the commands to please the master.
by GSDPACK on 07 January 2010 - 04:54
|I will repeat this again..|
"Any feed back about this old standard size campare to modern size German Shepherds."
father of the breed is Max von Stephanitz. I think I stick with his Idea of a GSD.
by Shtal on 07 January 2010 - 05:30
|Father of the breed created smaller size vs. modern size right now.|
Father of the breed creater 24 inch in height. (Modern German Shepherds up to 26 inch in height)
Sometimes you have to face the facts the improvements has been made from what Max von Stephanitz created.
You are simply speechless about diffrent standard size!!!!
by Shtal on 07 January 2010 - 07:40
|Differencebetween the East European Shepherd and German Shepherd breeds.|
Everybody is free to have a personal opinion when choosing a breed - it is simply amatter of taste. We will consider the differences in appearance between the two breeds and will add a couple of words about the character and temper. The East European Shepherd is bigger, wider and bulkier than the German Shepherd. Besides being tall, the East European Shepherd must have a massivebody structure.
Another point is wrist measurements (paw width). The East European Shepherd has massive paws and an average paw width of a good representative of the breed is far superior to that of the German Shepherd.
The upper body line of the East European Shepherd forms a smooth descending line, that is the withers of the dog is about 2-3 centimetres higher than the croup. The East European Shepherd"s upper body line (from thewithers to the croup) has a classic look - the withers being the highest point and the croup featuring the lowest position. However, the difference between the two point is quite slight. The German Shepherd features an arched back with a quite noticeable differences between the withers and the croup points. This is determined by the breed standards for the German Shepherd.
The German Shepherd is more suitable for a lengthy search work, for various sport high-speed competitions (agility tasks etc.). Despite the fact that the East European Shepherd has a perfect scent, the dog has a certain difficulty doing search work for several hours continuously due to its bulky size.
The East European Shepherd"s legs feature regular, proportional length so that thedog"s movements are productive and beautiful at the same time. The East European Shepherd breed standards do not require any superfluousbeauty with respect to the legs of the dog, while the German Shepherdbreed standards do. The East European Shepherd"s leg structure is highly functional, without any excess.
The main movement type for the German Shepherd is a "low spread trot with regular and parallel leg movements". It is notable in particular while moving at tight lead. The East European Shepherd"s movements are beautiful, smooth and productive. However, the dog does not feature a low and spread walk as that of the German Shepherd, yet it moves vigourously and steadily, often with its head high up.
The main difference between the two breeds is the temper! The German Shepherdis an ideal "sporting" dog, louder and more "joyful".The East European Shepherd has an equable temper, lively to the rightpoint, more "serious", especially male dogs.
by Shtal on 07 January 2010 - 07:48
East-European shepherd is moderately long, above medium or rather large in size, with strong, but not coarse bone and well-developed dry, relief muscles.
Sexual dimorphism is well-expressed, male dogs are larger and heavier than female ones.
Proportional to the body, the head is massive and wedge-shaped. The forehead is slightly rounded. The stop is pronounced, but not abrupt. The muzzle is equal in length to the skull. The lower jaw is well-developed. The lips are tight, with good pigmentation. The nose is black and large. Their well-developed teeth close in a scissors bite. The teeth are large, in complete set (42 pieces according to the teeth formula). The incisor teeth are well lined. The eyes are medium, oval, obliquely set, dark, close fitting, with well-coloured eyelids. The ears are medium in size, high set, perfectly triangular with their points being upright and going slightly forward.
The back is strong, wide and long. The loin is short, broad, well muscled, slightly arched. The croup is wide, long, slightly sloping. The chest is moderately wide. The belly is reasonably tucked up. The tail is scimitar in form, reaching hocks in length or slightly longer. The legs are straight and strong, with good angulations. The feet are oval and compact. The coat is medium in length with well-developed undercoat.
Colours: Saddled (background from grey to fawn, good mask on head), the saddle can be very saturated, so that the dog can look close to black and tan. Black. Agouti: grey and red.
Temperament: The East-European shepherd is very loyal to its masters. It is balanced, confident and distrustful with strangers. Being an excellent guard dog, the East-European shepherd will protect its owners at all costs. This breed is a working dog and will be happy to have some job to do.
Height: Male is 26-30 inches (66-76 cm.) Female is 24-28 inches (61-72 cm.) A larger height is preferable.
Living Conditions: The East-European shepherds will feel comfortably in an apartment if daily exercise is sufficient. They can easily live outdoors even in cold climates.
Exercise: The East-European shepherd is a working breed and needs to be exercised properly. They need to be taken on daily, brisk, long walks or jogs.
Origin: This breed was created in 1930 as a working dog adapted for service in the Army and for agriculture needs in various climatic conditions. The East European Shepherd was created from the German Shepherds. The first standard which formed the breed type was approved in 1964 by the Cynologic Council of the Ministry of Agriculture of the USSR.
At the present moment some steps are being taken towards recognition of the breed by FCI.
by mariaartashes on 07 January 2010 - 10:06
by VomMarischal on 07 January 2010 - 16:07
|I won't get sucked in. |
I won't get sucked in.
I won't get sucked in.
by Shtal on 07 January 2010 - 17:11
|What makes me happy is that people who argue with me before about oversize german shepherds are useless; end up wrong.|
And AKC says modern size is up to 26 inch in height; but Eastern European lines is up to 30 inch in height and they are working line.
Bigger and not useless as you think!
One last thing!
People who argue with me before, I finaly put them to it's place!!!!!!!
Look people - they are bigger and not useless!!!!!
by mariaartashes on 07 January 2010 - 17:17
|They have not such great drive, as GSD, not so quickly. They are calm. Many peoples like it.|
by yoshy on 07 January 2010 - 17:42
|The size isnt the total issue.|
The reason they are so widely disreguard amongst the GSD communtity is this.IMHO.
Breeding for a specific trait such as color or size without thought of consequence is severely detremental to the breed.
Here in the US there are many so called breeders that advertise overlarge shepherds. Consequently enough, Size isn't
always better as many ignorant american's seem to think. When you diregard mental stability, and structural ability you almost always end up with disaster. These people are to be stayed away from at all costs and are doing the breed a diservice.
You also have to look at weight different. When you start clearing 100lbs the wear and tear on those dogs for the long term in sustained work is astronomical. Most would be retired from service in short days if they even had what it would take to pass all the assessments. Think of the pounding on there joints and structure. Its not good.
Working abiltity. what are you basing this off of?
Look at the breeders who bred only for white shepherds. I have one that is a rescue now that is working. However he is in the .5% of white sheperds. They as a generalization tend to be mentaly and physically unsound. This is due to someone breeding for a specific trait with total dissregard for all others. Also you tread into the genetics aspect of breeding for recessive genes and such in which they are linking flaws to and so on and so forth. people dont think about!
Now if There are larger structured dogs whom are bred soundly meaning all aspects taken into consideration and are slightly above the norm then so be it. But just because eastern europe does it doesnt make it right. europe has done just as much of a diservice to the breed as anyone else IMO.
The day you show or anyone shows me the benefits of having a dog that size is the day i will retract my opinions on the matter.
by yoshy on 07 January 2010 - 17:58
Lets here it.
by Pharaoh on 07 January 2010 - 19:35
|I like big shepherds and they appear from time to time from good breedings that were not done for large size. That produces a big dog that is otherwise to the standard.|
I would not go to a breeder who is strictly going for size to the detriment of other issues, like temperament , drive and conformation.
I have noticed with these "big" schemes that they eventually lose everything that makes them a German Shepherd.
I went tos the website and was not surprised to see snipey muzzles and I am sure there is a lot more not to like if what you like is Gernan Shepherd. If I just wanted a really big dog, I could get a mastiff or a great dane or a newfie.
by mariaartashes on 07 January 2010 - 19:58
|This dogs was state at producers from Fashist Germany, they come with russian Army to Russia. But it was not the best dogs. The greatest producer was criptork, so, many jears nobody not look on this.|
Yes, some dogs was great, and I like they too. BUT. in 80jears mostly all was mated with GSD from DDR, Czech or BRD. We lost this breed. Now it is not those dog, wich we remember. Not so good work. They have not drive. Today it is not interesting, such dogs. Only for security home, but without drive...
by Shtal on 08 January 2010 - 04:24
Thanks for the link; they are great oversize dogs. I like some here www.veoclub.ru/Katalog_k.html
I still see no responds from the people who argue with me before about over 100LB's shepherds are useless.
You guys have nothing to say about them :)
mariaartashes, Pharaoh, yoshy. Thanks for the feedback, I simply wanted to hear from the people who were against oversize shepherds. That is all.
by Jackal73 on 08 January 2010 - 04:59
| We have nothing to say because talking to you is pointless. |
I'm familiar with the breed you linked, and they're not particularly useful aside from being property guardians. They were produced as part of the Communist craze for doing everything better than the west, and so were hyped with a great deal of propaganda and very little substance. So far as I know they're not really used for anything (the Soviet Army actually used GSDs for work, not the Ovcharka). The breed doesn't have much versatility. It's certainly not used for herding, police work, SAR, or Ringsport or Schutzhund. The only thing they're good for is for ego gratification for people who think big dogs are "superior", even though they don't prove it by actually achieving anything with the dog.
Maybe you should switch to breeding Ovcharka instead of GSD -- this is what you want from a dog, isn't it? And that way you can spare the world your attempts to "improve" the GSD.
(I should add as a general qualifier that I have nothing against the larger dog breeds. They were produced with a specific purpose, and therefore that's what the breed is for. Producing monstrous GSDs doesn't serve any apparent purpose because it runs counter to the function of the breed. The Soviets basically proved this with their production of their "improved" version of the GSD -- that they didn't use for much of anything themselves! Big improvement, that.)
by Shtal on 08 January 2010 - 05:01
|I would like this people on this list explain why this Eastern European lines Shepherds being used for many different purposes and tasks.|
Since almost all of you said shepherds over 100Lb's are useless.
What kind explanation would you give me to backup your own words ~2 months ago.
You better have a strong case against me this time.
by Shtal on 08 January 2010 - 05:11
|Dear, Jackal73 thanks for your first respond:)|
by Jackal73 on 08 January 2010 - 05:23
| How about you prove to me what Eastern European Shepherds/Ovcharka are actually being used for? |
I'm not talking about a bunch of generalized rah rah of the breeder's page. Show me pedigrees with titles, or YouTube videos. It's not as if Eastern European nations aren't actively participating in working and sport with their dogs and titling them. So, come on then Shtal -- put some proof behind your bluster.
Where's the evidence?
Oh wait... there isn't any. You'll find Eastern European German shepherd dogs, yes, but not Ovcharka.
You can whine and scream and gloat and name names as much as you like Shtal, but without evidence it's a bunch of useless noise. Kind of like those oversize dogs your so enamored with.
by Shtal on 08 January 2010 - 05:27
|Truth hurts, I know:)|
by Jackal73 on 08 January 2010 - 05:41
| Mate, give it up. Your delusions of grandeur are *funny*. You think you're somehow achieving something -- whether it's convincing people or goading me, and it's just not working.|
Here's a little clue -- you've evidently just discovered this breed. I'm somewhat familiar with them personally, in that I've met a few. It was in a non-working context, and temperamentally they were O.K., but didn't stand out. You're not impressing me with any wild claims about the breed. I honestly don't know if they're more commonly used in Eastern Europe because I'm not situated there. I'm certain some of our other board members would have something useful to add, given that many are fans of working breeds generally and some hail from Eastern Europe.
What breeds do they talk about in comparison with GSD? Dutch Shepherd, and Malinois. Not Ovcharka. There's a reason for that, and it's not because people have some sort of blind spot. If the dogs work well, they work them. If they don't it follows that they don't work well. Unless you can furnish some sort of hard proof that the dogs are useful for work and sport *no one is going to believe your claims*.