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German Shepherd Dog > PREY DRIVE: ACTUALLY A FAULT? (96 replies)

by Vikram on 18 December 2009 - 19:12

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 as somebody put it very rightly defense drive is not bad. If the dog is working in prey he has no knowledge of fear and a poor dog like a malinois who works only in prey will break down the moment he encounters first aspects of fear in defense. The dog has to know fear and learn to deal with it which was what I meant by "shifting gears " in drives and learn automatically to display prey when fear gets overbearing for him

cheers

by Vikram on 18 December 2009 - 19:12

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 to put it in Skinner's theretical framework. Prey is the Antidote for the dog of his fear pschosis in defense. If the dog does not have the prey drive he will crumble from the fear psychosis of the defense drive

cheers

by snajper69 on 18 December 2009 - 19:12

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"and a poor dog like a malinois who works only in prey will break down the moment he encounters first aspects of fear in defense"


Poor dog like Malinois? you never owned one or worked one did you? because this is the most idiotic statement I ever heard coming out of your mouth.

by Vikram on 18 December 2009 - 20:12

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 Its WIP for you.  ( Work in progress in case you didn't get it)

by Vikram on 18 December 2009 - 20:12

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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:28 pm
 Wiat a minute don't tell you me you meant Malinois are better than GSD!!!!! . Oh! my gosh guys meet the mororn of the century here here here 

by snajper69 on 18 December 2009 - 21:12

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Never said that but neither is prefect. Both have a lot to offer. At least I am not stupid enough to get bit by my own (imaginary) dog lol like you hahahahaha. Hold on aren't you in India? lol how many Malis did you seen in your life? We all know about your excellent internet research skill lol hahahahaha.

by snajper69 on 18 December 2009 - 21:12

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Virkam you righ malis are such a shitters... I am surre your imaginary dog would do so much better LoL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKEF3CppmEw&feature=related

by SchHBabe on 18 December 2009 - 21:12

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"a poor dog like a malinois who works only in prey will break down the moment he encounters first aspects of fear in defense."

ROTFLMAO

Ignorance is a beautiful thing.  Fortunately, this ludicrous stereotype of the Malinois is advantagous to the breed because it is hopefully a good deterrent to prevent idiots from dabbling in the breed and ruining it with over-breeding. 

Prey drive channeled with control is a beautiful thing!

by snajper69 on 18 December 2009 - 21:12

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One more thing Vikram I went on the training site for the owners of that Mali, this is what I found:

Nazwa firmy „Jamor” została przyjęta jako hołd psu służbowemu rasy owczarek niemiecki służącemu w Policji w latach 1995-2004 nr sł. 11510 będącego dla mnie więcej niż przyjacielem.


You know what that means? They name of the breeding/training program is in honor to his first working GSD, it apears that even though he prefers GSD's he knows how to appreciate Mali's as well. Good dog is a good dog breed never matters. In this institution they train Malis and GSD's site by site with no prefrence to one over other, and they are working people these is sponsored by police department not a jokers. So these people know good working dog inside out, and they train and work dogs every day, this is something that you will most likely never achive. Their experience and knowledge comes from working the dogs not from internet research like yours.

by Bob McKown on 19 December 2009 - 12:12

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Vikram:

                  Please tell me you don,t really think that all mali,s are as stated? thats like saying Schutzhund dogs are only good for sport trials.

Both statements above show great lack of experience and knowledge. 

by Gustav on 19 December 2009 - 14:12

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Prey drive is a vital component of a good herding dog.

by freemont on 19 December 2009 - 20:12

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Gustav,

Rightly so, rightly so.  Prey drive is essential in a good herding dog.  I forgot to bring up herding in my last post...

Freemont

by freemont on 19 December 2009 - 20:12

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On another thread, someone mentioned that even in Czech lines as certainly in W. German lines already that the prey drive is being more accentuated for a better "sport" dog.

The question then became how has this accentuating the prey drive changed the working lines from say 30 years ago?

Also, it is often said that a dog with a strong prey drive is easier to train, so does this make a better gsd or a lousier handler?

by Gustav on 19 December 2009 - 20:12

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I think that a lot of the current Czech dogs do have more prey drive and I also think they are getting to be sportier than they were 15 years ago. Not all of course but you see more and more of Czech dogs mixed with West workinglines that have very strong prey. But, by the same token the Czech lines have to eventually diversify their genepool also. So, they are faced with incorporating west working or showlines. The best working showline dogs that I have seen in past 20 years were from Eastern bloc countries. (Czech, Hungary, etc).
I still favor the older type dog that has balanced drives and good fight drive in the work. JMO

by Scoutk9GSDs on 19 December 2009 - 22:12

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A good Malinois is a superior working dog on any day than a good GSD is. It doesnt have anything to do with prey or defense either. They are simply far more agile and pound for pound stronger with more endurance. They are a hardier breed. I suppose you could argue that comparing them really isnt just because they think differently but we always have to compare even if its apples to oranges ie. "which is the best fruit"? Each has a place. You could also argue that a bad Malinois is worse than a bad GSD.

by darylehret on 20 December 2009 - 01:12

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"A good Malinois is a superior working dog on any day than a good GSD is."

What a blanket statement that is, very unlike you.  Perhaps in others, but at least in the example of livestock tending, I totally disagree.

by GSD Justice on 20 December 2009 - 01:12

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A malinois is a poor choice for working dog bottom line.  I am 6'4", 245 pounds, and still in shape.  I would break any malinois in half if he tried to take me down.  A full grown adult GSD is a fearsome sight even at my size and ability.  I would not F$$$ with the GSD. 

Check in with the Army, local police, and high end personal protection firms.  No malinois in sight.  Sorry, nice dog, but not a GSD.

by Scoutk9GSDs on 20 December 2009 - 02:12

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GSD Justice,

I really have no idea what to say to THAT!!! Im speechless. LOL.

You go on with that.......holy cow....and...GOOD LUCK!

by Slamdunc on 20 December 2009 - 03:12

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Wow, lots of stuff here.

First off in regards to the OP.  Prey drive is vital to a working dog.  Through prey drive comes speed.  In SchH and in Police K9 work if you teach the dog that anyone moving fast is prey; the dog will fly into them.  Then the dog can switch into defense  or fight drive if the person resists or fights.  The dog needs to have high prey drive to run a person down with speed.  There is no defense or fight in a person fleeing a dog or even running at a dog from a distance.  In SchH this is the escape and the long bite.  In the real world it's apprehending a fleeing suspect.  A dog with out prey drive simply wouldn't chase someone running. 

Prey drive also comes into play in detection work.

Ok, here we go Mali's vs Shepherds.  I'm a Shepherd guy, but I have worked some outstanding mali's.  Our special forces teams use Mali's and some Dutch Shepherds, no GSD's.  These are high end, highly trained dogs, loaded in prey and loaded in defense.  I've watched these dogs work, trained with these guys and have decoyed for them.   These dogs have been in serious combat on a regular basis and some are actual war heroes. 

GSDJustice,
I doubt  you could ever break one of those dogs in half.  These dogs will do some serious damage, as much or more than the best GSD,  Some are 80lbs and are agile, fast, hard and super intense.  These dogs are hand picked overseas and a lot of money is spent for them.  They are some of the best working dogs I've ever seen, they are on a whole new level. 

Scout,
A good Malinois is a superior working dog on any day than a good GSD is. 

I have to disagree with this statement.  It depends on the job and depends on the dog.  Mali's are not the best working dog for every job.  I like a hard, serious but clear headed dog, with no handler sensitivity and little or no handler aggression.  This is hard to find in a Mali, but not hard to find in a GSD.  I think both breeds are excellent but they each have their own issues.  I have a GSD that is super high drive, clear headed and very serious, I wouldn't trade him for a Mali.  But when I look for my next police dog, I'll take the best dog I can find GSD, Mali or Dutch Shepherd.  They will all be in the running equally. 

JMO FWIW,

Jim

 

by Slamdunc on 20 December 2009 - 03:12

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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:46 am
Yvette,
Well said!  Thank you for the dose of common sense and the good laugh.  LMAO.  

Jim

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