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ForumsGerman Shepherd Dog > Over-Socialization? (58 replies)
by workingdogz on 20 March 2012 - 17:02 |
| joanro; I'm not defensive at all, even when you resort to personal jabs etc. If I was remiss in articulating myself on this subject, I certainly apologize now.I will see if I can have an adult proof read my posts from now on  I was not aware I would have define each and every word I used, but now I know I must. Thank you. To each their own, you feel getting a pup out into the world is just a way to cover weak temperment, I feel it is a good way to turn out a well rounded dog. We happen to live in the city, but I did grow up as a farm boy, so if you misunderstood my comments regarding not having chicken and other livestock, I certainly apologize. We are simply not permitted to keep livestock in the city limits, so we use the urban setting as our 'farm'. I would never demean farmers, without them, we die. I do find it ironic that while you picked apart my ideology on 'showing a pup the world', you yourself on your website state that you 'expose all dogs to livestock'. So, would that be considered socializing? conditioning or? Do you get what I am saying? See how easy it is to pick apart someones words when you want? I will make no apologies for believing all puppies should be 'shown the world', some do need some 'help' in living peacefully in this world, so for them, socializing can only benefit them. For a well bred solid nerved puppy, it does nothing more than give him something new to see, and provide a new environment and distractions to practice obedience etc in. People in wheelchairs, walkers, crutches, dragging oxygentanks, etc etc Climbing on stacks of lumber at Home Depot, bags of dog food at Petsmart, riding in a shopping cart, heeling next to one, using an elevator or escalator etc etc. It's important to us to see how our pups react to new stimuli. There is no perfect dog, all will balk at 'something' eventually. It's not even what they eventually 'stop' at, it's how/if the pup recovers on it's own or not thats important to us. |
by Blitzen on 20 March 2012 - 17:45 |
My first GSD puppy was born social, he loved everyone. My second, a different story although he was socialized to death from the first day we got him. Camping trips, local malls and markets, puppy play groups, OB, you name it we did it with him. He was never a trustworthy dog in spite of all of that. I have to think that is mostly in the genes and that no amount of socializing is ever going to turn a poor temperament into a good one.
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Blitzen by joanro on 20 March 2012 - 17:58 |
| Wd, you're articulating quite well. However, I have not said socialization is not important and necessary, otherwise a dog will grow up to be a wild wacko with no clue as to how to blend with human society. I was speaking to the OP's question: need for over-socialization. I also never said that I feel getting a pup out into the world is only to cover week temperament. There's thunderstorm coming, so gotta go. We are on the same page in my opinion. |
by Rik on 20 March 2012 - 18:11 |
| Kieth, I think you make a very good point. The best of dogs spending the first year or two of their life looking through a fence, can exhibit unwanted behavior in new circumstances. |
by joanro on 20 March 2012 - 18:23 |
| Rik, I don't remember anyone thus far saying their dog spends the first year or two of their life looking through a fence, but that is very true what you said. That's why my dogs don't spend their life looking at the world through a fence. Wds, enrichment in a dog's life can be provided in as many ways as their are people who own them;) |
by Rik on 20 March 2012 - 18:53 |
| joan, I said that, nothing wrong with your recolleccction at all. I said it as a comment on this thread and expanding on what Kieth's comment. do you have a point you are trying to make. maybe I am missing it. |
by joanro on 20 March 2012 - 19:12 |
| No, just that I didn't see it and it is a sad truth that many dogs of any breed live out their lives in that manner. |
by Keith Grossman on 20 March 2012 - 22:44 |
| I think this thread was destined to go awry by its title. I'm not sure what over-socialization even means unless we're talking about things like dog parks which I consider fundamentally ridiculous. On the other hand, I would submit that suggesting that proper socialization of any dog may or may not be necessary by virtue of his/her "strong nerves" is equally ridiculous. All puppies need socialization to help them become familiar and self confident with the various people, sounds and unexpected happenings with which they will come in contact in the course of normal life. That basic truth is undeniable for any of us who've actually worked with those dogs who never got that socialization. |
Keith Grossman by Ace952 on 20 March 2012 - 23:25 |
| I started this thread b/c I hear on other forums "socialization" being stressed 24/7. It made me wonder why do folks go to such extremes and why is it stressed to the upmost. I see where first time GSD owners come online and they get beaten over the head to death with "congrats with your puppy. Make sure to socialize!! socialize!! socialize!!" You start reading where people go out of their way to socalize their dogs out fo fear the dog will become a fear biter or not like people in general. Stuff like that is what made me create this thread and wonder if people are doing too much socialization or better yet maybe not being explained what correct socialization is. I don't go out of my way to socialize mine. I work 8 hours a day during the week, So when I come home they get walks and on the weekend if I go out, they are with me on short errands and all. Living in Phoenix, when it is normally 110 degrees outside...their ain't much socializationg oing on...lol. Socialization normally comes at my club field. With the 2 dogs I have they have always run up to strangers on leash and loved to be petted and all. That doesn't bother me as I saw from 9 weeks old it was their personality. As they got older it changed and they became more aloof. |
Ace952 by Red Sable on 20 March 2012 - 23:27 |
| Do German Shepherds need socialization, most yes. Some, no. I agree with joanro. I've had and seen many dogs that have never gone off of the farm that were extremely outgoing. It is definitely genetic. However, because the GSD is bred to be wary of strangers, the chance of some (most?) being bred to need socializing is more prevalent. I have socialized some of my GSD's more then others, but as someone else mentioned above, the result seemed to be mostly the same. Some things were overcome, but the basic temperament (genetic) is not changed. If they are sharp, they are always sharp. Yes, you can accustom them to sights and sounds, different types of ground, but a skittish dog is always going to be skittish when encountering something new. |
Red Sable by Keith Grossman on 20 March 2012 - 23:47 |
| "I started this thread b/c I hear on other forums "socialization" being stressed 24/7. It made me wonder why do folks go to such extremes and why is it stressed to the upmost. I see where first time GSD owners come online and they get beaten over the head to death with "congrats with your puppy. Make sure to socialize!! socialize!! socialize!!" You start reading where people go out of their way to socalize their dogs out fo fear the dog will become a fear biter or not like people in general. Stuff like that is what made me create this thread and wonder if people are doing too much socialization..." Exactly my point; you are confusing people stressing the importance of socialization with dogs being over-socialized, whatever that means. You'll forgive me if I'm not surpised that the person who argued here a few months ago that Michael Vick should be forgiven doesn't get the difference? |
by joanro on 21 March 2012 - 01:01 |
| I would like to make clear that I have never said a gsd pup does not need to be socialized. And I never said that I don't socialize my pups. However, there are ways to socialize a pup that doesn't involve special trips to the city to show them that there are cars and people there. I can show that to them when I take them with me three miles up the road to the gas station, and hang out talking to the locals and the fire station next door has guys there who always love to come out and talk dogs. I think that attempting to show a pup everything it will ever encounter in it's lifetime for fear it will be a freak is as ridiculous as thinking as long as a pup has "solid" nerves, it's ok to leave it chained to a tree. Maybe over socializing is walking up to every person encountered and asking them pet the dog, and give it treat while the stranger is at it, which the owner always has a handy supply of. This kind of stuff really happens. But that is only one example of what I would consider over doing it. Stupid shit like that. |
by alboe2009 on 21 March 2012 - 01:02 |
| Let me wipe away the tears. (Laughing so much.....) It's unbelievable how a word/phrase has so many interpretations. Some by their comments, (and either articulation or lack of?) are believing that "socialization" is strictly the encounter/encountering of humans? Most are dead on (in my eyes) when they share new experiences with their puppies. For me; depends on what your dog will do or be. A WORKING dog, (here we use that word again and not to confuse it with the other thread(s) but for a working dog you as the handler wants your dog to be accustomed, aware or hopefully has acknowledged as many "experiences" as he/she possibly can. Experiences with people being only one of those experiences. Noises, smells, terrain, surfaces, stresses, climates, timetables and the list goes on. And for the person that stated I believe tremendous difference between socialization......conditioning. SO RIGHT! |
alboe2009 by Keith Grossman on 21 March 2012 - 01:15 |
| "Maybe over socializing is walking up to every person encountered and asking them pet the dog, and give it treat while the stranger is at it, which the owner always has a handy supply of. This kind of stuff really happens. But that is only one example of what I would consider over doing it. Stupid shit like that." Ok, if that's where we're drawing the line, I agree. You made it sound like dogs with good nerves require no socialization and that is not accurate...all puppies require appropriate socialization. |
by joanro on 21 March 2012 - 01:40 |
| I sure did not intend to give that impression. Alboe, I think that simplifying what socialization encompasses might be for convenience. Going through the list of experiences beneficial to a dog could be another thread. But to me it would be like saying dogs shit after they eat, exposing dogs to life; it's as natural as rain. |
by alboe2009 on 21 March 2012 - 01:51 |
| Can't keep the avatars staright especially when there are multiple pages. (once starting to type can't scroll throught the pages?) Don't think it was you though........ Initial point is (and maybe it's just the way I'm wired) but on numerous threads we get on a subject and it's not the right subject or input from the readers concerns a different subject ie; DRIVES, BONDING, etc. |
by doggiedoo on 21 March 2012 - 02:14 |
| If a dog has real social aggression, socialization will not do much for it. |
doggiedoo by Ace952 on 21 March 2012 - 02:28 |
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by Rik on 21 March 2012 - 03:33 |
| It is posible to under "socialize". There is no such thing as over "socialization" of a dog. Rik |
by mfh27 on 21 March 2012 - 03:46 |
| I think the reason socialization is emphasized is the fact that there is little negative outcomes in over socializing, what ever that really means; but the chance of negative outcomes is much greater when a puppy is under socialized. I dont think an inexperience owner should take the risk. |
mfh27
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