German Shepherd Dog > Soft mushy poops (25 replies)
Soft mushy poops
by Eldee on 26 February 2012 - 03:10
Here is my story. Maya my 9 month old pup has been to the vet three times now with runny poops. It has been two months and I haven't seen a good poop. Cow paddies are what they remind me of. I have run the gammut with foods, even cooking chicken and rice or potatoes and to no avail. She has been on two kinds of drugs and now is on amoxicillin as the vet believes it could be coccidious ( spelling ). She has been on amoxi for 4 days now and still runny poops. i have tried grain free or chicken and rice limited ingrediant diets, taste of the wild lamb and cannot for the life of me figure out why she can't have a normal poop. Some nights I am up with her at 3 am so she can go outside. Some nights she sleeps through with no difference in her diet. I think the only people here getting rich is the pet store owner and the vet. I did buy today, Royal Canine German Shepherd food, because when I read the back of the bag it made sense. This food is formulated for german shepherds and their sensitive digestion history. I am praying to God that it is my answer. Some nights her tummy is making so much noise and her farting is so loud it keeps her awake and restless.
by srbarabs on 26 February 2012 - 03:41
I wonder about your Vet. First, "the vet believes it could be coccidious". BELIEVES??? A simple stool check is all that is required to CONFIRM if it is coccidia. Just like checking for worms. Coccidia is an intestinal parasite that is resistant to traditional worming treatments. And yes it is treated with antibiotics, but Albon or Tribrissen (both are sulfa based drugs) not Amoxicillin. Treatment time is extended, usually at least 10 days and be sure you do not skip a dose. I have had a couple of pups I purchased that were diagnosed with coccidia (one GSP, one GSD). Both received a 10 day treatment of Albon, and I have had no re-occurence in about a year. I did make sure to clean up all poop and place in the trash.... even taking the grass and a thin layer of dirt (grass will grow back) to make sure I removed all contaminated feces.
Something else to consider, if Maya has had a couple of rounds of antibiotics now, the 'natural flora' of her gut may be disrupted. That can also produce 'runny poops' and a rumbly tummy too. You may want to try some probiotics or yogurt to help restore her to normal gut function. I checked on-line and you can get the probiotics from PetSmart, and probably other pet supply stores also.
One final thing, how comfy are you with your Vet? It just might be time to look for another if he/she is guessing at a diagnosis without running a simple test (and then prescribing the wrong treatment for the guess).
Hope this helps,
by Two Moons on 26 February 2012 - 03:50
Find a new vet, get her off the meds, and feed kibble dry, just incase your wetting it down.
GSD's do not as a rule have sensitive digestive tracts.
Avoid designer dog foods and settle on a brand, stay consistent.
What brand have you been using for 25 years?
Plain yogurt will help with gas but don't over do it.
If your going to figure it out you must stay with one brand and stop switching around.
You must find a vet who knows how to do his job, sadly many do not.
And be patient, changes take some time, thus the need to have consistency.
by trixx on 26 February 2012 - 04:02
|yes, i would do a stool check first and see if there is something there, if not then yes yogurt would be a good thing to start, if the stool is positive it would more than likely be coccida or garidia, and the meds she is on will not help coccida , i always use Ponaazuril, it works very fast too. if she has Garidia i would use metronidazole, make sure you give yogurt every day. and yes keep you pup on the same food, do not keep switching.|
by trixx on 26 February 2012 - 04:05
|for now i would also give the pup some pure pumkin to firm her stools .|
by La Junta GSD on 26 February 2012 - 07:24
|Give some pumpkin|
by 1GSD1 on 26 February 2012 - 12:09
|I would run the EPI profile, checks for that SIBO and low B12.|
by Runag on 26 February 2012 - 12:22
|Hi, sorry to hear about your dog. I have fed my pup Royal Canin since I got him and he has absolutely no tummy problems whatsoever. It's good stuff. Maybe don't feed him for a 24 hour period, just water and electrolytes if needed to let his tummy get a rest and then gently introduce his new food? As said, a little bit of natural yoghurt is good and you could try a spoonful of Manouka Honey with it - it's got natural antibiotics in it. Could he have eaten something like a bit of bone, stick or something? Hhopefully your vet will have checked for that. I don't know about your dog but I do know what effect certain antibiotics have on my tummy!! Good luck.|
by Gershep2 on 26 February 2012 - 13:22
|Did the vet check for EPI??|
by Rik on 26 February 2012 - 13:25
|Hello Eldee, I know how frustrating this can be. As said, amox is not the drug for cocci. maybe you misunderstood the drug given. all this was covered pretty well in a recent thread.|
once giardia and cocci can be ruled out, and they can really only be ruled out after treatment because it can be missed in exams, you will have to start thinking allergies, epi, sibo and a whole host of other possible causes including heriditary.
Is it possible you are overfeeding. Find one food and stick with it for a couple of months. Do not put so much stock into what you read on the bag. I have had a couple of dogs that seemed to do poorly on chicken and I now avoid it both raw and in bag food. I think too many hormones and additives allowed in the U.S. in chicken industry.
by 1GSD1 on 26 February 2012 - 14:26
|Besides the EPI that I brought up, it sounds like it could be IBD too which is diagnosted by clinical signs unless you were to scope your pup's insides. I would start with the EPI panel really if Cocci and Giardia can be ruled out.|
by Barenfell on 26 February 2012 - 16:00
|Amoxicillin is a broad spectrum antibiotic...it is used for many types of bacterial infections, including Clostridia. Maybe that's what your vet meant? Keep in mind that any antibiotic also disrupts normal intestinal flora. Yogurt is NOT enough to rebalance the intestinal flora. I always give at least 1 Billion CFU's of probiotics while my dog is on antibiotics, and for 2-4 weeks after the treatment is complete, along with some Arabinogalactan as a prebiotic (food for the probiotic), which also increases butyric acid production (anti-inflammatory). With a pup you will need to start at a lower dose and work up. Make sure that you don't give the probiotic at the same time of day as the antibiotic, or it will not survive long enough to colonize.|
As mentioned Albon is most often used for coccidia infections...there is also a product called Kocci-Free that worked for one of my dogs with a persistent recurring case of coccidia. Take a stool sample right away to rule out other things, like giardia, but then again in 3-4 days after the diarrhea starts for the highest chance of getting a positive fecal for coccidia. Many people immediately run the first stool in and then get a false negative result on the coccidia.
If your pup has been on antibiotics in the past, or has poor digestion due to impending EPI (endocrine pancreatic insufficiency) it could very well have Small Intestinal Bacteria Overgrowth (SIBO). It occurs when the normal friendly flora (Lactobacillus/Bifidobacter strains) are too low and pathogenic strains start colonizing the small intestine...which in turns causes inflammation (sometimes linked to IBD) and urgent, very smelly diarrhea. Metronidazole (Flagyl) and Tylosin (Tylan) are effective for controling the bacteria involved in SIBO, but unless your dog has a good bacterial balance to begin with, many times it will come back unless you give lactic-acid producing strains of probiotics. The lactic-acid strains in the probiotic help to change the intestinal pH balance to a more natural level, thereby inhibiting the overgrowth of the pathogenic strains. Your vet can check the blood serum levels for cobalamin and folate to help determine if you're dealing with SIBO...its a fasting test.
EPI stools will look undigested and oily, since fats are the hardest for them to digest. They will also be yellowish in color. The test for EPI is called a TLI, it is also a fasting test, so the TLI/cobalamin/folate are often done together. Check the EPI4dogs site for good insight into this disease. http://epi4dogs.com/
IMO, the longer the diarrhea goes on, the more damage done to the mucosal lining of the intestine. This can result in malabsorption of nutrients, as well as allergies or food intolerances due to the inflammation causing gaps between the barrier cells.
I would not keep flipping around on foods, unless you suspect a food intolerance...then switch to a single, simple novel protein diet. Follow the 4R approach...Remove, replace, restore, repair. Remove pathogens/treat disease processes. Settle on an easy to digest diet with enzymes if required. Rebuild the intestinal flora. Repair damage to the intestinal lining. Refer to the article on Holistic Approaches to Inflammatory Bowel Disease from the 2007 North American Veterinary Conference. http://www.ivis.org/docarchive/proceedings/NAVC/2007/SAE/018.pdf
I am not a vet, so you need to do your own research and sit down and have a heart-to-heart with your vet...or find one that is experienced dealing with digestive issues. Two months is too long to be guessing at what's wrong.
by Nans gsd on 26 February 2012 - 16:30
|I did have a problem with my young male with whip worm, really played havoc on his system, the first stool sample I took in was clear; decided to do another but much later and what do you know it came up with whip worm which he had for several months prior or possibly since birth or youngster. BUT same type of symptoms. Treated with panacur for 5 days, then waited a few weeks and re-treated again for another 5 days; believe me was not as hard on him as the whip worm. Never came back again. But IF if get any type of recurring or icky stools when nothing else has taken place I treat with panacur (the goat version is the easiest to get) in liquid form and is called SAFEGARD; but the farm animal version works best. BOL Nan|
PS: In order to get a TRUE definitive answer to any stool sample OR blood workup everything you have been giving her needs to be completely out of her system. Sometimes that takes a while, so in the meantime the PLAIN pumpkin in the can might help, yogart if she can tolerate dairy and if she can't tolerate dairy I would use probiotics from a health food store (chilled section) and keep refrigerated by the way, not petsmart crap, human grade good stuff. Then you know what quality you are getting, the pet industry are not known to have GOOD quality med's or supplements for animals, I mean my gosh that might help cure something. BOL Nan
by Eldee on 26 February 2012 - 17:22
|Thanks so much for your input and help. I forgot to mention that she was on both of those drugs mentioned and they did nothing and the poop has been tested twice and nothing as well as a blood test for EPI and it came back fine. I guess because both of those drugs ( tyloson and metro ) didn't work she thought it might be bacterial in her intestines and the test for that is expensive so to save me some money and she said that coccidious ( spelling,again) seems to be more apparent these days then ever before, ( she said in her 32 years as a vet metro or tyloson has mostly always cleared up diarrhea except in the past two or three years she is seeing this more and more, wonders if it is the ground, water doesn't know or Maya at rabbit poop or deer poop or cat poop, who the F knows ) this is why she is on amoxxicillin to clear out the intestines of bacteria. maya, does in fact eat everything God put outside. If it is on the ground and looks interesting it is in her mouth. I have her on a leash now, but still when she goes out at night she is not watched. She is always ravenously hungry. Like me. Last night, I thought she was sound asleep in the kitchen but no..... she had found a rawhide bone under the couch and ate it. I was up twice in the night with her to go outside. Good lord..... what a devil she is. So I have scoured the house for rawhides bit I know with her nose she will find one she has hidden somewhere. I have had the same vet for years and she has always done right by me and my dogs. She says if the amoxicillin doesn't work she has a plan B. Wouldn't tell me what it was though, but my husbands plan B may be different from my vets. he says a buck twenty five and you get a silver bullet. Poor Maya. i hope she gets better soon. ( just kidding by the way )|
by joanro on 26 February 2012 - 18:06
|Eldee, do your pup a huge favor and find a good vet!! I have never had at stool check that was so expensive that my vet was forced to guess a diagnosis. Your vet is "saving" you money at the expense of your pups health and wellbeing.....find a good vet! Also, if Maya has been eating raw hides she just might have some stuck in her gut since raw hides are not digestible and should be banned from the market.|
by EuroShepherd on 26 February 2012 - 19:40
If I suspect a protozoan infection (like coccidia or giardia) I use Ponazuril too, much more effective than Albon, some cases need metronidazole in addition to ponazuril for giardia.
by Eldee on 26 February 2012 - 21:56
by trixx on 26 February 2012 - 22:17
|if all does not work out, i would start over with rice and 1 meat protein , to get her stools back to normal.|
by trixx on 26 February 2012 - 22:19
|it could be as simple as allergies.|
by 1GSD1 on 27 February 2012 - 02:03
|With the EPI testing and what you have had her on that should have taken care of sibo and some, I would start to think IBD and she is not too young for that.|