German Shepherd Dog > IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT re Degenerative Myelopathy (DM) (105 replies)
by marjorie on 26 February 2012 - 02:23
|--- > Can you point me towards this information/proof/evidence? I have heard this, but been unable to find any "proof" of it other than "so and so said" or "I heard it".|
I assume if you kept reading the thread, Val, you saw proof. Yes, its horrid about Missie T. Just about did me in when I found out :(
by marjorie on 26 February 2012 - 02:25
|---> One of the reports from UM that I read said that all GSD's diagnosed with DM have tested at risks. |
LOL- these are the same people claiming GSDM and Corgi/Boxer DM are the same disease, despite completely different diagnostic test results and symptoms.. Consider the source, please.
by marjorie on 26 February 2012 - 02:30
|---- > Marjorie, As you have a DM support website, can I suggest that you have a page or whatever on your site where you request that people register their info/results so that you have a record of data. It seems a logical step.|
Brilliant idea, Abbey Normal! I love it! I guess message boards are good as they bring a whole new perspeective. I should have thought of that when people started to contact me, but I guess with my focus on Missie T, I wasnt seeing the forest through the trees! Thank you so much for an excellent suggestion! I will contact my webmaster and have him start working on such a page :) I bow humbly to you :)
by marjorie on 26 February 2012 - 02:46
|--- > I am concerned that OFA, UM, the media, and the public do not distinguish this disease from the one that commonly afflicts GSDs. From what I can tell, the GSD disease is quite different from the disease studied by Dr Coates. The two are easy to distinguish clinically. If the dog has lost sensation it is not the disease studied by Dr Coates. It may be that UM still thinks there are no normal/normal dogs with DM because they exclude dogs who have lost sensation. By their definition of the disease that is correct but it doesn't help the GSD community at all.|
That is what I have been trying to tell people, all along, but no one wants to listen. Certainly not the GSDCA, who informed me they have no desire to learn about the differences. What a tremendous disservice they are doing to the breed. They even invited Dr Coates to speak at the National. I guess they are more interested in Corgi/Boxer DM, or more interested in getting results that wont threaten sales of dogs. Its almost as if there is a collusion in the scientific community to embrace what Coates has to say as the gospel, and ignore facts. Earlier in this thread I mentioned some of the differences between ALS and GSDM. One of the differences was sensation. One is a motor unit disease, and the other is an autoimmune disease, and that is why the diagnostic test results are so different.
Yes, people with GSDS can choose to test, but personally, I would rather give my money to hungry children. At least it would do some good, there. It does zero good to test a GSD for a disease it doesnt get and all it does is add to the hype and collusion. :( May as well burn the money or just write off GSDS, because that is the end result of this - our breed is being written off, period, end. GSDM is being pointedly ignored. How many more will have to get ill, like Missie T, to get owners of our breed to act responsibly and demand we get our fair share of research money for the type of breed our breed gets-GSDM! As generations go by, and have been followed, I do believe there will be many class action lawsuits filed against all entities involved in promoting this emperors new clothes farce.
by marjorie on 26 February 2012 - 02:59
|--- > in the meantime others are researching it anyway.|
Nope- unless it is a for profit venue with cash. All DM research monies have been steered to Dr Coates in relation to funded research. Hers is the only view accepted, so this actually HURTS our breed!
by marjorie on 26 February 2012 - 03:15
Here is what I am thinking of putting up- did I forget anything? My brain is so fried :(
If you had the OFA DM DNA (University of Missouri) Test Done, please fill out this form:
Breed of Dog
Did this dog ever develop DM?
What tests did you do to try to confirm the diagnosis of DM when the dog was alive?
Was a necropsy performed upon this dog when it passed?
Was the necropsy results sent to the University of Missouri?
Did you speak with anyone at the University of Missouri regarding this necropsy report?
If so, with whom did you speak?
If your dog tested N/N and you bred your dog, did any of its progeny develop DM?
Did any of the progeny of the progeny develop DM?
Any suggestions would be welcomed, if I forgot something.
by GSD2727 on 26 February 2012 - 04:35
|Actually Marjorie - I did not see any links or information regarding where to find proof of the carrier or clear dogs who were proven to have DM with necropsy. If I did overlook it (and just went back and looked again) please forgive me. Would you please post the website or contact information to find out again? |
Again I have heard several people talk about these dogs... but have yet to see anything "official" about it.
by marjorie on 26 February 2012 - 05:21
|Val- see post by dsurber on page 4. I have also been contacted by people with similar stories but I havent kept track because I have no time with Missie T. I will begin to keep records through my dm website from now on if people wish to participate.|
by marjorie on 26 February 2012 - 05:25
|--- > Again I have heard several people talk about these dogs... but have yet to see anything "official" about it.|
If you mean official, as through the U of Missouri, you would have to ask them about that, not me. I have no control over what they do with information given to them. Evidently they know about it. What they has done with the info I have no idea. Dsurber said she did speak with Dr Coates, personally.
by dsurber on 26 February 2012 - 05:42
|One more thing worth knowing.|
If you plan on sending postmortem specimines to UM, if possible, arrange for a postmortem CAT scan or MRI. This will rule out any other cause of your dog's problems, such as cancer, disk abnormality, orthorpedic problem, etc. My vet is one of the few in the country with their own MRI. I could have had him scanned but I didn't know.
by marjorie on 27 February 2012 - 01:16
|BTW, Val, yes I do remember you from the AOHELL Boards. I remember VERY well the bunch of bullies on the board. The *polite* but constant needling you engaged in, there, does stand out in my mind very well. That is something|
one would not be likely to forget. Perhaps you were very young,t hen, and didnt know any better. I do hope you genuinely missed dsurber's post and you are not reverting to the behavior exhibited way back when. I personally believe that people dont change, so I question how you could miss that post by dsurber and my posts explaining the differences between the two diseases. That being said, if you TRULY missed it, I apologize. If you didnt miss it and plan on repeating past unacceptable behavior, this would not be a good time to engage in that behavior. I am feeling tortured, not knowing *when* I should let Missie T go....It will probably be sooner rather than later. If you have any further questions on the subject of why there has been no official announcements about wrong test results not being made available to the public, I suggest you contact Dr Coates and stop making official reporting my responsibility. I have enough on my plate, now. Like you, I have been told of stories like dsurbers, but I didnt ask you for an official site, did I, or imply that you should know of one that is acccesible to the public.
by marjorie on 27 February 2012 - 01:53
|One last thing in relation to the DM Flash Test and the SOD1 test. Corgis and Boxers did not possess the allele associated with GSDM in the Flash Test in their genetic make-up. I believe that is a very important thing to take into consideration when one discusses GSDM.|
by Blitzen on 27 February 2012 - 13:36
I hate to see a hesitation to submit DNA to the UM and/or any other active DM project. Even if one doesn't think the results are valid and doesn't consider them a part of planning breeding, I see no reason to not contribute to the study.
by marjorie on 27 February 2012 - 15:46
|I also feel that samples should be submitted to Dogenes project. The problem with submitting DNA to the OFA test is that all monies get locked into one particular area so other research cannot be funded. That, IMHO, is detrimental to DM dogs. One should never put all one's eggs in one basket, especially when the diseases are not the same.|
by Blitzen on 27 February 2012 - 16:35
If I had a dog with DM, I'd support the new study. Since I don't, I'll stay with Coates' research for now and use those results as I feel appropriate. Others can do as they please.
by GSD2727 on 27 February 2012 - 22:47
|Marjorie - actually I did not read dsurber's post until you pointed it out. I did go back and read it after you pointed it out. But again, it does not answer my question. Is there any REAL proof of this happening? Not just someone posting on the message board that it happened to their dog (not saying this person is not honest, but I dont know this person, do not know them, do not know their dog, do not know anything about them).... is there somewhere to go to find FACTS about this situation? Website? person to contact? |
Again I have seen it mentioned here and another email list - but no one can provide facts, a study, a website which contains the information, any type of proof of this at all?
I understand that you are disagreeing with the current DNA test available. What I am interested in is if there is any real proof of dogs who are tested n/n or n/a being confirmed to have DM by necropsy? If there is, I would love to see it...
I am sorry you are loosing Missie T - I know how hard it is to loose a dog... I just lost my Libby last Sept and it still hurts.
by marjorie on 27 February 2012 - 23:12
|I am so sorry you lost Libby, Val! I know how much you loved her! How old was she? She had to have been old (not that that makes it any easier :( )-didnt you have her when I had Jack Flash???? I could have sworn you did!!!|
I am going to start gathering info from my DM site- my webmaster is working on putting up a page for me. The only one who would have all the official data is U of Missouri and they are not publishing anything to my knowledge, in relation to mistakes. Dsurban would not say what he did without it happening, It would be too easy to verify. Do the u of Missouri DNA tests have numbers assigned to each dog who was tested? If so, I
need to put a space for the test number on the page my webmaster is working on, for me, to collect data.
by GSD2727 on 27 February 2012 - 23:19
|Marj - Libby was over 14 years old. She lived a long healthy life and was active/happy up until the very end. I am fortunate to still have her 9 1/2 year old daughter and 5 year old granddaughter. |
Thanks for the info! As far as I know there are three different places doing the DNA test, I am not sure if they all assign numbers or not. Will be curious to see what you find out.
by marjorie on 28 February 2012 - 00:29
|WOW!!! 14 years old!!! Thats unheard of these days!! Guess I got my latest pup from the wrong person! My 2 yr old male came to me with a mass in is neck- calcinosis circumscripta. It was sitting on his jugular and the nerves that go to the cervical portion of his spine. I had it removed but it grew back in one year. They couldnt get it all without risking paralyzing him or knicking the jugular. They dont know what to do with him now. After that ( 4 month recovery time at the height of his socialization period where he couldnt wear a collar or a leash, as he was slit from below his ear to his collarbone) I started hearing clicking when he walked. He had UAP in both elbows so he had to have surgery again, with another 3 month downtime. Despite all that, he is an energetic happy boy, but he doesnt do well with strangers, although he loves kids. I have to bring him back for another CT scan to monitor the mass. Its been one nightmare on top of the other. Almost to much to cope with. Well, it is too much to cope with :( Missie T didnt want to eat tonight, for the first time, so I am monitoring her carefully. She usually loves going out in her cart, but she didnt want to, today. If this continues, well, I dont even want to think about tomorrow. I have to go day by day. Today was the first day her attitude took a hit. I will have to see what tomorrow brings... ::::big sad sigh::::::::|
by beetree on 28 February 2012 - 00:59
|So sorry for you Marjorie. When mine refused to eat and wouldn't put his ears up, and lay his head down with a sigh, I knew it was time.|