German Shepherd Dog > IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT re Degenerative Myelopathy (DM) (105 replies)
by marjorie on 24 February 2012 - 17:51
--- >What are the current statistics on this, it would support your argument so I am presuming that you are keeping some data on it?
by marjorie on 24 February 2012 - 18:15
|---> I would like to see the DNA results of puppies produced by at risk x at risk.|
me, too. I would like to see generational follow ups of all, however.
by Abby Normal on 24 February 2012 - 23:39
|Is it known whether there is any type of programme by the UofM for a follow up of any group?|
If the evidence is available to prove that the test does not work it surely must be presented to UofM to challenge the test, isn't this the whole purpose of your campaign?
I appreciate that for now you must give Missie T your time, but when it is appropriate I feel that this must be formally taken up with the UofM if the evidence is available..
by Blitzen on 25 February 2012 - 01:01
Marj, were either of Missy's parents DNA tested using either protocol?
by marjorie on 25 February 2012 - 01:38
|No they werent tested :( Her breeder went through a divorce and had to place all her dogs :( Joss was tested, and he was negative on the Flash Test. He was 11 years old when he had to be euthanized due to vet error (I learned the hard way that I am not capable of murder), and he did not exhibit any DM signs.|
Missie T and Joss's grandfather were brothersMissie T and Joss are closely related on both sides of their pedigree- you can see this by comparing their pedigrees...
by oregontnt2007 on 25 February 2012 - 01:40
|I am so glad I found this, I lost my GSD to DM. It was the worst thing ever to see her slowly die from this with everything we did to try to save her. We spent our savings 2 years ago. She was "affected" on both sides. Her poor back feet were missing hair from he dragging her back toes ( buckling over ) so we spent money going from vet to vet begging for help. There was nothing to do to save her. We had her creamated. I have had friends that had dogs were carrier's and doing well so far.|
This forum is full of so much info that I am so overwhelmed by it. There is info I never evne knew about until now. I just bought a new GSD pup where the parents are clear.
after reading this site, it changes my mind on DM. It is a lot to digest after dealing with my beloved girls death. I too was in denial about this conditon hoping, begging & crying that is was not true.
I had to put her down, she died in my arms. I dont blame the breeder, they did not know at the time of the breeding. They just did not know. I tested her with OFA & now I see that OFA testing might not be 100% with other test. I was told that before so that is why with my last dog I went with DDC testing. So it is true after all. How correct are these test? I then had
another dog I had I tested, she came up as a carrier, I did the 50 yard dash backwards in TWO SECONDS with her. She was so sweet, but needed a stronger dog! I could not bear to deal with that in anyway again. I was assured over & over by OFA & DDC that she would not change to affected since only 1 parent was a carrier & the other parnent was clear. ok
I think I am going to go now, it is too much for me with all the memories.
To those that do have DM affected dogs, I will pray for you & your beloved babies.
good night all :)
by marjorie on 25 February 2012 - 01:40
--- >I feel that this must be formally taken up with the UofM if the evidence is available..
Rest assured that when have the time, it will be formally taken up, but not with the U of Missouri.....Dont u find it curious that they are claiming that ALS is the animal model of ALS and the ALS Society has no knowledge of this? I pray I wont have the time for many moons to come, although I know my prayers are not realistic. However, there will come a time when my time is not consumed by caring for Missie t, and when I do, nothing is going to stop me from doing what needs to be done.
Thank God for Dr C- he has, through his research, enabled Missie T to get back up and walk, once she was already down. However, the research program she is on is not a cure, especially at the advances stages of her disease. She has had a lot of extra quality time, because of his experimental program, though, and I treasure each and every day. However, I feel sorry for other DM dogs, who couldnt be a part of his research trial because they deserved to have the same chance at a longer life, with quality, as Missie T has had, but cant, due to politics steering research money away.
by marjorie on 25 February 2012 - 02:54
|Oregon, my heart goes out to you... DM is such a horrid disease- there are so many awful diseases our breed develops, but DM is the worst, IMHO. The dogs feel no pain,and one just sits, helpless, while their beloved fur kids waste away in front of our eyes, and its the worst feeling in the world to be so helpless and unable to do anything about it. Honestly, I dont know how the OFA could say what they said, as they dont understand the science behind the U of Missouri test. When Dr Clemmons was doing the DM flash Test, he made it clear that there were no guarantees, because it is way too early in the research to know what will happen in the future. He cautioned against jumping to premature conclusions and labeling dogs or removing them from the gene pool based upon research that is in its infancy. To be accurate, and to claim, with certainty, that a dog will be DM free, one would have to follow many generations to make the kind of statements that are being bandied about with the U of Missouri test. Furthermore, it is highly unlikely that there is a sole gene that causes DM. I am so sorry you were touched by DM. Once enveloped in the DM nightmare, it becomes an experience that one will carry with them to their grave, it is so traumatic. I am so sorry for the loss of your fur kid. One never gets over the loss of a dog to DM- one just learns to live with it, but the scars are carried forever, as permananetly as one's name :( I know-sadly, I have walked this road before and once again, I have found myself on the same path... I , however, will never own a GSD again, as much as I love the breed. They have been bred to implode, and the politics are way too destructive and petty for me to be able to have another, ever again.|
by Abby Normal on 25 February 2012 - 16:16
|I , however, will never own a GSD again, as much as I love the breed. They have been bred to implode|
Someone here once stated that the GSD breed was one of the healthiest breeds of pedigree dogs in the world.
by marjorie on 25 February 2012 - 16:39
|--- > Someone here once stated that the GSD breed was one of the healthiest breeds of pedigree dogs in the world.|
Yeah- and I am 17 yrs old ;) Better chance of me waking up tomorrow morning and being 17 than there is a chance of the above being a true statement. Do you see breeders flcoking to the German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry to enter their dogs? Dont hold your breath.
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
by dsurber on 25 February 2012 - 19:45
Abby Normal wrote:
Not all GSD's diagnosed with DM have tested at risk using the UM test. UM is aware of at least one GSD that tested normal/normal and yet had DM. I know this beyond any shadow of a doubt because he was my dog.
My previous GSD began showing signs of DM several years ago starting with loss of motor control and sensation in his rear. As soon as the UM test was announced we had him tested. He was normal/normal, meaning not at risk and not a carrier. Yet his symptoms progressed and my vet said that she had no doubt that he had DM. When he died we had samples collected according to the UM protocol and sent to UM (at no small expense I might add). They re-did the DNA test; still normal/normal. The UM pathologist said he had DM. Dr Coates asked the pathologist to recheck and the result was the same, DM. This is per personal telephone conversation I had with Dr Coates.
So UM has at least one case of a GSD that was normal/normal, checked twice, had classic clinical signs of GSD-DM, and was diagnosed by the UM veterinary pathologist as having DM, twice. Dr Coates knows all this because she is the one who told me.
Dr Coates's hypothesis is that DM is canine ALS. ASL does not cause loss of sensation. My wife has had close personal contact with ALS. She confirms beyond any doubt that ALS does not cause loss of sensation. My GSD clearly lost sensation starting in the rear and moving forward. We actually tracked the progress of his disease by measuring how far up his torso the loss of sensation went.
GSD-DM is not canine ALS. The UM test does not identify GSD-DM. I see no point in testing GSDs using the UM test. It may be a good test for Boxers and Corgis--I have no opinion on that--but it is not a good test for GSDs.
by marjorie on 25 February 2012 - 22:03
by Blitzen on 25 February 2012 - 22:45
I didn' t make that up!!! One of the reports from UM that I read said that all GSD's diagnosed with DM have tested at risks.
by Blitzen on 25 February 2012 - 22:53
In the meantime, I guess it's up to the individuals to test or not their breeding stock and up to buyers to decided if no DM test is or is not a deal breaker.
by dsurber on 25 February 2012 - 23:05
I don't doubt that. It may have been true at one time, but as of August 2011 it certainly not true.
by Abby Normal on 25 February 2012 - 23:21
Was this reported to the OFA? and how was it left with Dr Coates, ie what was the next action point, and what did you do next?
As you have a DM support website, can I suggest that you have a page or whatever on your site where you request that people register their info/results so that you have a record of data. It seems a logical step.
I still would not throw this test out. The more tests there are the more data it will ultimately produce. If that data proves the test to be flawed it by necessity will lead to further research, and in the meantime others are researching it anyway.
by GSD2727 on 25 February 2012 - 23:26
|Hi Marjorie - been a long time since the old AOL Boards :)|
Curious, you said there is evidence of dogs who were NOT tested "at risk" yet still proven to have DM on necropsy. Can you point me towards this information/proof/evidence? I have heard this, but been unable to find any "proof" of it other than "so and so said" or "I heard it".
I am truly sorry to hear that Missie T has DM...
by dsurber on 26 February 2012 - 00:03
|Abby Normal wrote:|
I did not report it to OFA or anyone else. I'm a dog owner not a researcher. I expect that Dr Coates and her team are ethical scientists and that if their hypothesis is falsified, as it appears to have been, they will report this fact and adjust their research accordingly.
by Abby Normal on 26 February 2012 - 00:06
Just a thought that has occurred to me resulting from Valerie's comments.
If the accuracy of this test is to be challenged the evidence gathered needs to be very clean, clear and accurate. So I would guess that you would need to ask people to supply copies of their DNA test result, and a copy of the necropsy result and possibly the pedigree in order to present the relevant information to the appropriate body.
by Abby Normal on 26 February 2012 - 00:18
Firstly let me say that I should have started by saying that I am very sorry that you lost your dog to DM, it's a club that many of us belong to but sorely wish that we never had to join.
Thanks for that reply. It is interesting and it is good to see that Dr Coates flagged your dog's case for further study.