German Shepherd Dog > Leicester GSD Club (60 replies)
by Member on 30 July 2011 - 08:28
Barbara I fully understand your concerns with regard to the off lead gaiting. This has never affected me because when handling for others and with my own dogs we trained for this and had no problem . When you came onto this thread to discuss your reasons as to why you disagree with this new requirement and time scales involved many others like yourself feel the same. We can only wait and see if it affects the entries. My reason for coming on the thread today is my concern about AB who comments on what should be done and the way to do it and yet we do not have a clue who this person is? On this particullar issue and many others in the past to discuss the subject with someone giving advice without knowing their own capabilities and past involvement in the breed for me is pointless.
by Mackenzie on 30 July 2011 - 08:30
Off the lead gaiting is a spectacle and to be done properly it needs more thought before introducing this exercise into the showring. To train a dog to run around in a ring, either on or off lead is not difficult to do in itself. The problem is that once the dog is off the lead the handler does not always have 100% absolute control. The dog is a thinking animal (or should be in this breed) and if it sees the owner or outside attraction that is of interest to it then that it is where it is going unless there is absolute control. Anyone who has ever trained a dog will understand this and the frustration that comes with it e.g. dogs that break the sits and downs, sendaways and recalls. Unfortunately so many people, breeders, owners, handlers never take the time, or, interest to learn and practise the art of control. I have seen so many times that some so called experienced person has no control whatsoever when the dog is on the lead.
In my opinion until the levels of control through properly structured training qualification with certified evidence of success e.g. SchH1 is a fundamental necessity to compete with this type of exercise it should not be introduced, particularly when training for the biting is given preference over the fundamentals that every dog should learn. Imported dogs with this sort of working qualification should have no problem at all unless, of course, the Sch has been bought.
by Lennard on 30 July 2011 - 08:46
Surely unless you push the requirements, nothing will happen people will just sit back and do the minimum.
This way will force it to happen, unfortunatly for this Country you have to Push
Yes, Maybe the timescale is wrong
by Mackenzie on 30 July 2011 - 08:53
Lennard, the requirements do not begin with off lead gaiting. The sad thing is that so many will just not undertake responsibility for proper training with their dogs, or, themselves. This problem has been addressed differently in Europe where it is obligatory to train at least to BH level.
by missbeeb on 30 July 2011 - 09:09
John, I couldn't agree more. Abnor does (used to do?) a little bit of agility I believe.
There have been many accasions when she's dropped herself in it, though why she has to pretend is beyond me... we are all always learning, are we not? I think the general forum term for people like Abnor is, "Troll". God knows, David Payne can get his hair off with little provocation at times, but Abnor positively STALKS him and a couple of others... quite peculiar!
by missbeeb on 30 July 2011 - 09:12
Mackenzie, you are completely right imo.
by Lennard on 30 July 2011 - 10:32
I agree with you but you have to start somewhere, and most Exhibitors will need that extra push
perhaps this would be the incentive they need and understand
by Videx on 30 July 2011 - 10:54
|Mackenzie you are absolutely right. At the British Sieger Event we have "off lead gaiting" for the Working Classes, male & female. These classes are confined to those dogs that have fulfilled the SV requirements for a Working Class ie Schutzhund & Korung.|
The problem is the British Sieger Committee have decided to introduce "off lead gaiting" into the requirements of the Adult Classes, male & female. These classes are for dogs over 2 years of age with a British Breed Survey and NO other qualifications. Currently the British Breed Survey quite rightly does NOT include any working tests, this is because there is are VERY few Training Clubs throughout the whole of the UK. So to introduce Working Tests would disadvantage a huge majority. Under these circumstances I consider it quite ridiculous to introduce "off lead gaiting" into the Adult Classes. I also feel sure that several major organisations will also be very concerned about it.
The very least the British Sieger Committee should do to cover their "backsides", is to obtain permission from the Kennel Club and from the SV Judges. Remember our British Sieger Event is organised between the GSD Breed Council, BAGSD & the GSDL, the latter two being WUSV member clubs, and the Event is with the "permission" of the Kennel Club, which clearly implies their permission should be sought for such an addition.
missbeeb: Makes extremely important points. Our British Sieger Event, with the addition of an Adult Class is meant to provide a "fully inclusive" opportunity for ALL GSD exhibitors to show their dogs. The Adult Class requirement of a Breed Survey embraces the fundamental Health Requirements along with basis temperament testing. This would allow ALL GSD that meet these requirements to enter. Those who wish to follow the demanding requirements of the German SV system can, and are fully catered for with the Working Classes. To now make additional demands on the Adult Classes or The Breed Survey MUST BE BACKED UP WITH UNIVERSAL PROVISION OF CONVENIENT TRAINING CLUBS. This is NOT going to happen, so greater demands will only benefit the FEW and EXCLUDE the majority. Surely this is NOT what we wish to do??
by Mackenzie on 30 July 2011 - 12:21
It may well be that there are few training clubs in the UK to help with training the dogs. The most important point is that it would only take a few centres where anyone who has never trained before can attend and be taught HOW to train a dog. When they have this knowledge they will not need to attend any club other than when they need help with a particular problem. All dogs can be trained to differing levels of incompetence but not all of the breeders, owners and handlers know and understand HOW to train a dog. I have trained many dogs without regular attendance at any particular club. Thankfully, I was taught the “how to” by some very good trainers when I first came to this breed forty years ago. The result of that experience has made me understand, enjoy and appreciate our breed for the better.
Remember, the hardest part in the beginning is to learn HOW to train a dog. You will be surprised at how far you can go alone. The minority would soon become the majority.
by Abby Normal on 30 July 2011 - 22:46
|You will be surprised at how far you can go alone. |
That's what I was trying to say in answer to you MissBeeb when you said you 'couldn't get to your handler' and so couldn't train your dog, and I stated it in a way that was intended to be helpful. I wonder why you felt the need to be so nasty in your reply? I guess it is simply that attack is the best form of defence.
LOL Maybe I should have just said that *some* people should get off their fat backsides and do some training themselves and stop whining and making excuses. Just to match my response in 'pleasantness and tone' to yours you understand. Or, perhaps Mackenzies phrasing would, on reflection, be more polite The sad thing is that so many will just not undertake responsibility for proper training with their dogs, or, themselves.
Ah well, I look forward to seeing your off lead gaiting at the Sieger NEXT year...........
by missbeeb on 31 July 2011 - 07:44
... and maybe you should simply butt out of things that you clearly know bugger all about! You monotonously comment on threads, offering your opinion on things that you clearly know little or nothing about.
On another thread (about rescue) someone got it right, they said (not verbatim & not interested enough to check) you just like an audience for what *you think* are educated posts; only picking out the bits you think you can deal with... see your post above; the real issues are missing, as always. You conveniently ignore the fact that I have worked my dogs in Ob... doesn't fit in with what you want to portray huh? You've ignored the part about inclusion too... same problem for you, obviously.
You have no idea what people do or don't do with their dogs... you guess and grasp at straws, then have the temerity to comment as though you know! You don't "do" helpful Abnor, you "do" condescending and pleased with yourself... regularly!
I don't want to exchange posts with you, good or bad; and I won't ever want your opinion... on anything; you're a complete downer imo and your behaviour (on here) is more than a little peculiar. I don't doubt I'll get a reply to this, but I'm not interested Abnor... you're weird.
by Abby Normal on 31 July 2011 - 08:44
|Inclusion - simple show classes (with gaiting on lead) for those who do not wish/cannot train their dogs to achieve any working qualification. |
A few are up in arms about the OLG, many who I know are entering the adult classes at the BS are not. Perhaps they are just getting on with training their dogs for the event.
Mackenzie I think you summed it up well (and are obviously NOT weird, so can be agreed with).
by Videx on 31 July 2011 - 09:32
|deleted by David Payne - post repeated when editied on my Ipad|
by Videx on 31 July 2011 - 09:32
|abbey: missbeeb sums you up very well in her last post. You would be wise to take heed. You are routinely thought about in the manner she describes. And before you write your response pointing out my own failings, I am fully aware of all of them and I will not change (too old in the tooth) - I am driven by my vast intellect and huge experience which makes me incredibly knowledgeable in all that I get involved in, which makes me arrogant, confident, assertive, fearless and a pain in the ass to most people. I think I have covered the main points, I am sure you and others can fill in those I have missed. Love David xxx|
by Mackenzie on 31 July 2011 - 09:33
|Abby Normal, I am disappointed with you. Please do not pick excerpts from my posts to go off thread and have a row with a third party. I hope this practise will stop.|
I have no further interest in the post.
by Videx on 31 July 2011 - 09:37
|Double post caused when using my IPad to edit my first post - apologies|
by Abby Normal on 31 July 2011 - 11:16
I am sorry that you see this as me 'picking' excerpts from your post. I am in fact agreeing with it. Nor was it I who started a 'row' but the third party to whom you refer. However, I did not wish to offend you, as I do respect your views, so I apologise.
Videx, I agree with everything you said - except that it is a very small core of individuals who routinely think about me in the manner you describe (I know this from the pm's of agreement that I get and I think you would be VERY surprised at who some of them are, hence the pm's), and those I can surely live with.
Love Abby XXX
by Videx on 31 July 2011 - 14:35
|I would not be surprised - ignorance comes in many disguises and is not always easily discernible|
by yorkjason on 31 July 2011 - 14:52
|reason. No I was not having a pop so thanks for your apology. Still no answer to my question of who the trainer is going to be ?. Anyways good luck with the new venture and others that follow, hope more clubs will do the same.|
by Lorroff on 31 July 2011 - 16:03
|This tread was about Leicester GSD Club, having a new training venue. Not another slanging match, between the usaul people that get on here.|