Best Working line German Shepherd breeder of the Decade? - Page 9

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by txarkoeta on 15 September 2021 - 17:09

First, excuse me for my English, it is not my main language. In this forum there is much talk about old lines, that West German sports cars are worth nothing ... breeders who respect those old lines ... I think it's very good, but today in 90% of kennels they introduce sports lines, the famous Jinopo, Eqidius, Midollyk, Aritar Baster, Anrebri ... they all introduce sports lines. Why ??? Some say here that if a stranger approaches their dog will go after the stranger ... is that the dog is insecure, secure or poorly socialized? I think sometimes we really like "vintage" but it doesn't have to be the best, there are very very good sporting dogs and bad old dogs and vice versa.

by xPyrotechnic on 15 September 2021 - 22:09

Look at those kennels you mentioned and look at their breeding stock they came from the old lines some from the DDR others from the Pohranicni straze which came from the DDR. The sports lines are from the older lines.

Take a look at Ibon Jipo-Me in the 7th generation there are many DDR's and Pohranicni straze dogs. These dog were not bred for sports but for working purposes, border patrol, police dogs etc..

The majority sports dogs that you see today cannot do those working jobs, and those dogs of the older lines can do sports and border patrol or being a police dog. A sports dog is like an athlete and the older line dogs is like a soldier, the soldier is an athlete but can also do personal protection and fight in wars but some of the athlete cannot do those things.

This is because of genetics they have been bred for different reasons and characteristics, a sports dog most of the time will be useless in a life threatening situation it is only good at getting points. Sports dogs generally have a high prey drive and if they have weak nerved and a stranger approaches them they will attack them because they are scared but if they were had a high defence drive and weak nerves and a stranger approaches them they will urinate on themselves out of fear.

by txarkoeta on 16 September 2021 - 01:09

Pero me está hablando de septima generación....muchos perros checos no valían para patrullar,muchos DDR tampoco,solo los seleccionados,no todos como es normal,acaso todos los deportivos van al campeonato del mundo?muchos deportivos hagame caso que si podrian parrullar.
Como decía,Jinopo,Aritar Bastet,Anrebri,Midollyk...han mezclado lineas antiguas con deportivas,porqué?pocas perreras tiene lineas antiguas al 100%,en Anrebri,Aritar Bastet o Midollyk son 50% antiguas y 50% deportivas aunque yo creo que deportivas mucho mas,que tengan antiguas en la septima me dice nada...eso me dice que ya no intrucen mucha linea antigua,solo un mínimo.

by GSCat on 16 September 2021 - 02:09

The 4H Puppy Raiser Program is alive and well (as well as it can be because of the stupid virus, anyway).
A lot of local 4H are partnered with service dog organizations

I agree, definitely differences between LE/military-capable GSD and others. LE/military-capable dogs can be trained for other services, but the handler must capable of the dog. As noted up-thread, the reverse is not true.



by Hundmutter on 16 September 2021 - 05:09

@ ValK, fuck off with the 'Pluto' video, there are plenty of "Police dog misbehaves; Police dog gets it all wrong; Policeman gets bitten by Police Dog" videos around the 'net, from a selection of countries, not just the UK. You really telling me you let THAT be your criteria for accepting proper, effective, operational (and in most cases home-bred) PDs exist here in the UK ???  Rapidly losing patience and sense of humour with your responses !

Try an excerpt from todays BBC News :

"Suicide Prevention dog wins at bravery awards: A police dog and its handler who helped prevent a suicide attempt are among the winners at an inaugural bravery awards. Kent Police German Shepherd 'Calli' and PC Megan West won the Lifesaver honour at the Thin Blue Paw awards at Knebworth House, Hertfordshire. In June, Calli picked up a scent and the pair found a man who said he would take his own life, leading to PC West administering First Aid.

"A Northamptonshire dog and handler also won the Lifetime Achievement award."


Last night on TV I saw film from an officer's body-cam of PD Breco getting his head slashed open with a knife while he still maintained his grip on a suspect, who then turned the knives he was carrying on that dog handler, & other officers. I don't know which force that dog was with. Just that it was in the UK.


We have 43 Police Forces here in the UK, they all use dogs to one extent or another, and yes some get their dogs from e.g. other Forces, because they have facilities to train PDs but not to breed their own. Several however still do have that  ability and it is used regularly.  Some of the officers running these breeding faciities are - and have been, in the past - very knowledgable people on what is required of a working Police dog and which bloodlines to use to achieve that. I don't think their contribution should be undervalued.


The most recently KC Registered litter of Police-bred GSD pups I know of:

Kennel Club Breed Records Supplement AY1/6 Spring 2021

The Chief Constable of Surrey Police (KCAB), 16/10/20

Hohenburg Ethan AW2 - Mountbrowne Patricia AW2  (dob 06/02/19. 1/4)            [ NOTE:  'Mountbrowne' is the Surrey Police registered affix / kennel name; it is a long-established one, I believe it may be older than I am !]

Mountbrowne Anya   b, c:Black&Tan

Mountbrowne Copper  d, c:Black&Tan

Mountbrowne Jess  b, c:Black

Mountbrowne Jilly  b, c:Black.


Also in this BRS issue: [ I expect Mrs Coles does some actual puppy-rearing for them ]


Westmids Angel       From The Police And Crime Commissioner For the West Midlands, to Mrs E Coles

Westmids Aye Gee             ditto

Westmids Ell Hach             ditto

Westmids Ess Bee             ditto

Westmids Eye Cee              ditto

Westmids Florence              ditto

Westmids Jay Bee                ditto

Westmids Pee Gee              ditto

Westmids Rainbow             ditto

Westmids Royal   to Mrs C Emma

Westmids Tiana   to Ms E Bamford


Would you like any more examples of Police Forces breeding litters of GSDs ?  Afraid I don't have time at the moment to check exactly how many imported dogs contributed to the breedings here, (or didn't) - but if you don't accept these records as an indication of the truth, I don't suppose you would believe me anyway, if I did list those as well.




by Rik on 16 September 2021 - 10:09

txar, I'll leave the sport/working to better qualified, but just because a dog completes proofing doesn't mean it is only a "sport" dog and not a serious dog.

I would imagine that the top breeders know the qualities they are looking for and how to select for them among dogs available.

to me "sport" dog is just one easier to train because of prey/food drives and maybe not so serious in defense/civil etc I was in a club with a couple of top competitors and both had, what to me seemed very serious dogs.

by ValK on 18 September 2021 - 00:09

"Valk, isn´t obvious if a breeder has the goal of producing dogs for real work based on the dogs they use in breedings and prior sucess in doing so?"

and that what majority of breeders today doing too... to produce dogs with goal to fit demand of average dog lovers who's never intend to use their dogs in any practical work field other than to be hike/walk companion or dog's sport activities. it's a simplest, easiest and least effort/cost consuming approach.


i guess historical czechoslovakian GSD breeding culture by itself wasn't sustainable enough to be selfsufficient.
during communist regime national pool constantly received infusion of fresh genetic material from former DDR.
1 - there no anymore such country and their dogs.
2 - changes of priorities and perception toward GSDs and their role and purpose for breeding. dogs did become hot commodity on international market.
3 - newly created type of dogs founded on:
worldwide quickly spread word about fame of the dogs of the past (zPS) +
familiar to a rich western consumers temperament of western dogs =
why do not use window of opportunity :)

"ValK, fuck off with the 'Pluto' video"

that was tough and unexpected response :) :) :)
you reacted like Pluto was your dog, sold or given to cops :P


by Hundmutter on 18 September 2021 - 02:09

ValK - no; not reacting on my behalf. Pissed off that you can denigrate the work of our UK LE so casually, they don't deserve your disrespect.

by johan77 on 18 September 2021 - 04:09

Valk, my question was more a response of your statement of how do you know which breeders are not breeding for sport,show or pets only, it should be obvious due to the dogs they use and previous sucess of doing so. But your of course correct the majority of breeders are not focused on "real" workingdogs only, the majority are not even breeding for sport.

Why would they not use "sportlines" the breeders in czech that was mentioned if they also are intressted in sportwork? Besides as valk said I suppose breeders in most countries need to infuse new blood from other countries to increase the genepool. It´s nothing wrong to use "sportlines" either if the dog in question has the qualities you are looking for. Every GSD in german is from sportlines because they need to have SCH-title, doesn´t mean they are only a "sportdog" in character. But of course it´s a problem if many of the breeders are focusing only what makes a good sportdog and the gap between sport and real work has become to large, the purpose of workingtitles was not winning but as a way to preserve workingdogs. But that´s another topic.

As for the best breeders of the decade it still a question of what criteria you use, is it based on how many sucessfull sportdogs they have produced or a a certain type of dogs, health and so on, I really don´t know how to choose that if you are not familiar with all breeders in various countries. I can mention hedeforsen and hasseman in sweden who have produced several hundreds of dogs for use in police, military, SAR, and have that as a goal but then again they are probably not known much outside here because few if any of their dogs have been in big sportcompetitons like WUSV or BSP that seems to attract more attention and I suppose there could be better options if top sportdogs is wanted.


by Hundmutter on 18 September 2021 - 06:09

Johan absolutely, as the current thred on the Danish kennel illustrates. Too many narrow minds here looking for only American or East European solutions.


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