Best Working line German Shepherd breeder of the Decade? - Page 12

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by adlerbach on 30 September 2021 - 20:09

I have had many German Shepherds over the years all working lines.  I do not want a racing greyhound or a husky or a malinois.  Since I am oldER I was around when the GSD was much different than some of the competition lines of today.  Years ago I was lucky enough to have a son of Natan v Bussecker Schoss and I think he read the manual on what a GSD should be.  Recenly I enjoyed 13 years, bought him at 11 months, with my best dog Polo z Danaru SchH3 an old line GSD with excellent work drives but also excellent in the house. He never failed a trial and scored highly at most.  The Dinoso son I have is from Belgium out of nice lines there but he was bred for high level competition with just over the top drives which is great but no ability to relax. Even after a lot of exercise and  he is in his run which is half of my basement he is constantly going.  I do have a lot of fenced land and he has free run most of the day on it and I work him at home. .  Personally I do not like a malinois type GSD.  I want a working dog that has an off switch who can  be a house and property protector when needed.  My Tom son just turned a year and is a really nice male with good work drives and solid temperament.   Each to his own.


by ValK on 30 September 2021 - 23:09

GSCat, you're correct.
over years plenty of good dogs was imported to American continent but seems none of them left sustainable legacy in their descendants.
breeding mostly done just to have fame name in pedigree regardless of conformity to traits and qualities of second dog in mating pair.

adlerbach
50 and 90 years ago no one talked or disputed german shepherd breed as working dogs. thats was default in everyone's mind - dogs of that breed exist for one or another kind of work.
i didn't witnessed when started that trend for a never maturing, playful, prey driven, hyperactive type of GSDs but grows of population of such type is very much correlates with shrinkage of use of GSDs in previously traditional fields of their applications.

by txarkoeta on 01 October 2021 - 09:10

But ... if so much is known ... why not create or recover that desirable German Shepherd?
For me the best is sporty + Czech, mixed. In the Czech Republic, for example, few breeders use pure Czechs, how many people from the Czech Republic buy from Jinopo for example? (Now even Jinopo does not breed 100% Czech) It seems that in the United States there is a great fondness for Czechs and DDR, to start raising them little by little

by adlerbach on 01 October 2021 - 10:10

Ah ValK such an accurate comment!

by GSCat on 01 October 2021 - 21:10

by txarkoeta on 01 October 2021 - 09:10

But ... if so much is known ... why not create or recover that desirable German Shepherd?
For me the best is sporty + Czech, mixed. In the Czech Republic, for example, few breeders use pure Czechs, how many people from the Czech Republic buy from Jinopo for example? (Now even Jinopo does not breed 100% Czech) It seems that in the United States there is a great fondness for Czechs and DDR, to start raising them little by little

 

Some breeders still do breed desirable working line German Shepherds in the US and Canada.  And we're back to the start of this thread . . . desirable will depend on the intended use/purpose of the puppies after they grow up.  Various posters in this thread have nominated the breeders of desirable WL GSD for Best Working Line German Shepherd Breeder of the Decade.

 

 


by txarkoeta on 02 October 2021 - 02:10

Ok I'm very happy !! How lucky the United States, they no longer have to buy in Europe and import them

by johan77 on 02 October 2021 - 04:10

It should come as no surprise that the breed changes if ideals and judging in sport are not the same. Knowledgeable breeders have talked about this for some time know that many GSDs are more like mix of border collie/malinois due to focus on speed,bidability quickess in reactions and so on and hence a more hectic/nervous type of dog is more common. If the market demands such dogs breeders will focus on it, look at the sucess of the malinois in dogsport for example.

Not so many breeders who are strictly breeding for service only, and not so easy for them to find good dogs for breeding when the majority of dogs are breed for a different purpose. On then other hand I think this trend is also among the dogs in service also, hard to place a really strong dog if you don´t find a experienced handler and hence preydriven bidable dogs are probably what many handlers want and don´t want to deal with a strong dog, the malinois is also very popular in service.




by Klossbruhe on 02 October 2021 - 12:10

I am fully aware that the title of this post is Best Working Line GSD Breeder of the Decade. However, much of the post has dealt with the subject that working lines GSDs are not what they used to be. With regard to this, Johann77 made an interesting point about judging, and here I speak only of SchH, IPO and IGP, having changed over the years. Having competed in Schutzhund Sport for thirty years, I have seen and experienced this.

In 1990, as far as protection went, judges were not so interested in control, but mostly how a dog bit. For a start, the handler was allowed to pull his dog out of the blind after the hold and bark. He did not have to call the dog back. Now, if the dog does not come back when called, you fail. Then, in the defense against the attack on handler, the second exercise in what was then the ScH I Prufung, to many judges, it did not matter if the dog broke and ran to the blind. The helper would be signaled come out and give the bite. Few if any points were lost for breaking the heeling. Instead, it was all about target, grip and full mouth bite. This was a difficult exercise, but the FCI and SV yanked out of schutzhund altogether and substitued the escape, basically a prey exercise. Why? The only dogs which will ever see the defense against the attack on handler (Uberfall am Hundefuhrer) are those who do a breed survey and those shown in the Sieger Show. And now if the dog breaks the heeling before the attack, it fails.

The discussion here is best working lines breeder for the past decade and posters are bemoaning that only the high prey, bidable dogs for sport are being bred because of the market. But the market, and here I am talking about those wanting to purchase working lines dogs, reflects the change in judging. And the market, almost entirely exists of people wishing to take part in schutzhund sports. So, it should come as no surprise that even Jinopo and his like are starting to breed dogs that will do well in the sport. Breeding costs money and therefore breeders want to sell their dogs to support their breeding programs. How many breeders can do this selling only to the police or the military, especially now when many police departments and the military have their own breeding programs.

Because judging has changed (and the real question is why has judging changed), it would seem to me that in selecting the best working lines GSD breeder for the past decade, one has to define their terms. Are we talking about breeders, who have ignored the trends in the sport altogether--if there are any--and are trying to breed dogs like Bussecker Schloss and Bose Nachtbarschaft of yesteryear--what Johann77 calls a really strong dog, or are we talking about breeders who have produced dogs which are dominating the IGP competitions?
 






 


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