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by apple on 12 December 2019 - 13:12

The person in the video sells a lot of dogs as Special Forces dogs, so I don't think he has many crappers. The standards are very high for a dog like that. Also, he looks for very confident dogs with very good nerves to breed, so when out of drive, his dogs tend not to be concerned with pressure or even perceive it as pressure. I do agree that many Mals' high drive masks nerve issues. I don't think the dog Bas would stay around if pressured like that. All he is doing is biting someone walking by, in defense, which means he is stressed.

by duke1965 on 12 December 2019 - 13:12

apple, show me one video of a dog on the street that is cought on the biceps and therafter handled like that by the person bitten by the dog, secondly, put a gun or a knife in the free hand of the decoy and see what will happen in one second


by Hired Dog on 12 December 2019 - 13:12

Duke, reality, you can kill 90% plus of today's police dogs with a kong/ball and a pocket knife.
No dog will last in a fight where the bad guy has a gun in his hand or even a knife, thats where you come in and decide about deploying the dog.
There are instances in which a dog can be successfully deployed and accomplish a lot and there are instances in which the dog stays in the car and the AR-15 comes out.

 

ADD: I fail to understand why people think that the dog is the be all, end all tool in any encounter. It is not and more and more dogs I see today working the street are deployed for the wrong reasons. 

There was a dog that was drowned by the suspect 15-20 years a go because the handler decided to send the dog in the water after a guy that had just comitted a burglary. Dog died...

There is a video on youtube of a dog that was sent after a guy who claimed he had a gun that no one could see. The SWAT team is out and they talking to the guy, the handler sends his dog in, the guy moves, SWAT hoses everything in his direction, dog dies and the guy dies. Oh, he had a shoe in his hand, it turns out. Again, no dog is bullet or knife proof, that includes GSDs and Malinois.

 


by apple on 12 December 2019 - 13:12

Any dog can be killed with a knife or a gun, especially by someone highly trained to use them such as someone in the military or a terrorist, or a career criminal who has learned how to fight very well. That is why the dog needs to be tested by someone who is not afraid of a dog fighting them and can give the dog a taste of being vulnerable to being disabled. I understand that the person commonly apprehended on the street will generally scream in pain after being bitten and submit, but Special Operation dogs are of a much higher caliber, are largely Malinois similar to the one in the video, and only 1% of the dogs trained make the cut.

by apple on 12 December 2019 - 13:12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8u9lZzYEao

Big guy, little dog, not sure if it was a bicep bite.  Guy is probably out of shape and is obese, and a stronger person could have put up more of a fight, but this guy didn't last long and the dog was going anywhere.



by duke1965 on 12 December 2019 - 14:12

apple, not sure if it was a bicepsbite,really? first bite was the bag he tried to hit the dog with, dog bit him everywhere he could and relocated bite several times, way different than your clip

by duke1965 on 12 December 2019 - 14:12



by apple on 12 December 2019 - 14:12

My point isn't as much to do with a bicep bite, but that the dog stayed in the fight (there was actually a fight compared to the video of Bas) and he was clear headed enough to not start biting any of the five cops hovering over him. I suspect Bas would have either bolted or bit anyone or everyone after the police surrounded him. Is the point of the video you posted that the dog is a possessive prey monster and won't out. That is a training issue to me.

by Hired Dog on 12 December 2019 - 15:12

This is once again becoming a Malinois VS GSD type thread...Duke, that video is a training issue, not a Malinois one.
You, out of all people, cannot tell me that you have a dog in Europe, be it KNPV, IPO, NVBK, etc, that has trained and trialed and outs perfectly over there, but, it somehow magically loses that ability here...
Its the shitty training that takes place here and the silly ideas that are placed in K-9 handlers heads that are the cause of this. When depts promote yanking the dog off a suspect as the standard way to out him, thats a problem.
When you are choking the dog off while screaming on top of your lungs, "OUT", you are counter-conditioning the dog.
When you tell every single suspect your dog has bitten, "stop fighting my dog", when the guy is clearly not...there are problems. I can go on and on, but, I am sure you see the point.
The dog in the video may or may not be some prey monster with possession issues, but, I am more inclined to say that its shit training that causes these problems.

by Centurian on 12 December 2019 - 16:12

Not to get in the mix of this converation but to rather to use it to share some thoughts . I like many of the views points... As I often write .... ' It Depends ' .....

The very very first thing I do with a puppy ,even at 8 weeks old is to , without any stimulation but with one wiggle of a rag , bring that 8 week pup immediately into and onto my body . This is Allowed** . Not only that ,  I purposely  tied rags all over by body to imprint the dog biting all over. I allowed the pup to bite anywhere except my face of course .. [ puppy teeth as we all know are SHARP !!] With repeated opportunities for the bites , not just on one area of my body but any and all areas of my body . That is : generalization of targeting areas right from the start of bitework .

My rationale : First - the pup learns to bite anywhere on the body , in many contexts , exactly from the start of bite working . Second - Attitude ..... the dog's thoughts and emotional state leads to the developing predicatablity in biting everywhere which shapes the dog's Attitude. Predicating the outcome puts into motion the eliciting of the biting behavior and the Attitude of the bite . That will be the difference between a dog biting with the notion that it is in control or biting because it feels that it needs to get contro [ or else ] [ proactive vs reactive]. There is a significant difference betwen the two bites . So yes ... a dog learning to target all areas early in the bite work gives the dog future predicatbility and of a future successful outcome : the experience of targeting any and all areas ,with the reassurance and attitude that is necesary to bite any and all body parts . This experience enables the dog to develop  proper Attitude which is one of certainty and engagement as opposed to avoidance. Of  course genetics also governs this biting , but so does experience , which potentiates this genetic expression. I have seen many dogs not given the opportunity to generalize early on and they get stuck in a body preference for biting. For some dogs that have gotten stuck : That ' getting stuck in preference ' of an area to bite is not always a function of the dog gentically but more so of the inadequate training . Then again some dog jusy do not have what it takes to bite anywhere , anytime and anyplace on the body .

Something to think about... the thoughts , roll into actions and those successful actions create the dog's outlook and attitude about everyhting related to biting !

My point , much just depends .. on the dog and on what it taught or what it is intially allowed ***** . [Prager used to talk  about defaults when the dog intially bites a person, I use the word imprint ]

Not in reference to the dog in the converstaion . I will just comment that a dog that will not out : this  can be due to from either 1. the learning/teaching [ inadequate , absent or faulty teaching ] or it can originate  2. from  faulty genetics ,






 


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