by Mackenzie on 28 August 2019 - 05:08
What must be remembered is that our breed is a working breed that can be shown. Unfortunately, the founders warning from the beginning have been largely ignored. The money people have taken over and glamour has become the order of the day. Not many breeders from the show fraternity are interested in training their dogs to properly meet the standards required by the working dog. It is much easier and quicker to keep breeding and selling to keep the income coming.
The German Shepherd is still is and always will be one breed. That should be everyone's purpose in their interest of our dogs.
by apple on 28 August 2019 - 10:08
by Hired Dog on 28 August 2019 - 10:08
by Mackenzie on 28 August 2019 - 12:08
Turning to Roland v Starkenburg he was a black dog who was born 1st November 1903! He came from the time when the gene pool was very limited but his type from his bloodline produced consistently the same anatomically. It may be that v Stephanitz thought that this was of some merit at this point in the breed history. The breed has developed and Roland’s type is not seen very often today, one hundred and sixteen years on. Looking at Roland’s peers produced at that time they were not much different anatomically in their type. When being judged at the period in Roland’s time the priority was working dog first and show dog second. It may be that his character may not have been the best of the bunch, who really knows? I do not think that holding up Roland at this time in the history of the breed is the right dog to use as an example.
When you say “I see no value in showing dogs and especially no value in show line dogs. I don't see value in registering dogs” then for me you are indicating very little knowledge of the benefits of this system. If it were not for this process you would not find the information that is available on this or any similar database. All of which is beneficial to serious followers of the breed.
The purpose of the working qualification is to establish that the animal has the ability to learn and perform to a level that it can work as befits a working breed. The unfortunate thing is that the system is circumvented when the titles have been bought.
The breed standard is the guide to what is desired in our animals, however, in referring to structure Breeders have ignored the standard either through ignorance, lack of understanding or poor breeding stock this applies to both working and show Breeders.
by apple on 28 August 2019 - 12:08
by Mackenzie on 28 August 2019 - 14:08
apple - I do not have to look at the KNVP Mal X or Dutch Shepherds because they are nothing to do with the German Shepherd and this thread. I think you are getting mixed up in this matter. I did not say many of the SV showline dogs have essentially bogus titles. What I did say is "the unfortunate thing is that the system is circumvented when the titles have been bought". The benefits of recording information about dogs via the registration system is that it provides the basis of any search for or about a particular animal i.e. sire and dam, dysplasia results etc. A German Shepherd is a utility dog which means it is capable of working in a variety of different disiplines whether it be just a companian dog, search and rescue dog, guide dog for the blind, Police dog, Military dog, Competition dog,herding dog,sniffer dog, patrol dog. The breed is not just about law enforcement or bitework.
Turning back to Roland it is mentioned in the book "The German Shepherd" by Goldman and Hart that " He proved to be the only stud of his time that could produce the type that Stephanitz was breeding toward from available bitches". This underlines the fact that in those days a breeder could only deal with a few males because the choice was extremely limited.
by apple on 28 August 2019 - 16:08
Regarding Roland, you point out that v. Stephanitz choose type over temperament, which to me, is totally inconsistent with someone trying to develop a working breed. Goldbecker and Hart sing high praises of Roland in their book, but never mention his weak temperament. They describe him as a genetic mutant that launched the breed forward. To me, that would only be true if your goal was more about type than working ability.
by Centurian on 28 August 2019 - 16:08
But the truth and the reality : HD is the least of concerns within the GS at this point , for there are other afflictions that present more often and far out number the incidence of HD .. Believe me , HD .... that is the least of all ills to worry about ...
by Mackenzie on 28 August 2019 - 16:08
by apple on 28 August 2019 - 17:08
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