Sport to LE? Who's done this? - Page 23

vito, its easy to find pedigrees that are bred for topsport only, tons of pedigrees out there where some bitch is bred to WUSV sieger, doughter out of that combo, bred to next WUSV sieger and so on,
lots of pedigrees jammed full with flavour of the day dogs

Joan ro I am not making fun of the puppy. I would never do that. that is a nice puppy. I am merely pointing that the training the pup is not civil training but sport or sportism training.

Ok. Thanks. But you missed the part that I did not say he was being ' civil trained' , but that he is showing a "tendency to be civil" . He is being trained for a sport title...so of course it is sport training!

Vito they will not show you such pedigree because it is not in the pedigree. It is in the propensity of the selection and promotion of a certain type of dogs in a sport. It is about boiling frog ( if you get my drift ) Slowly step by step we are losing natural protectiveness due to consisten selection for lack od natural protectiveness. Some dogs this day have none and that is worrisome. And if you want names I'll give you names Vkar breeding program is such program most sports lines WG are such lines. If you do not breed for something YOU WILL LOSE IT. Have we lost it? Not yet. I hope that this will help you to understand.

Valk: Joan, hard to say about dog in video, too much sleeves over there.
next time tie the dog and leave alone by walking away from dog's sight.
let the decoy without anything in hands and without threatening gestures but confidently and fast approach the dog.
do observe how dog will react, would be willing to engage into confrontation, if so, how (active or passive defense) and where he will place his bite on decoy.

Me: Perhaps after the pup is titled, they can go in the direction of testing for civil.

Vito: Stop listening to someone that** sells crap*** puppies,, and 99% of them are placed with families because they aren't suitable for sport or police.


Correct, you did not say " garbage".

Valk: If they don't produce dogs, suitable for LE/military purposes, it's not because they are bad breeders but because such market isn't one, where money can be made.


Me: it's not that money can't be made, because a dog for LE will sell for a heck of a lot more, green, than selling for a pet or untrained sport prospect.
It's about having connections....seems to me that most departments go through vendors to aquire prospects...
What department is going to go to a person who breeds one litter a year to get dogs?
How many dogs does Duke test to get enough to fill an order?

There are far more people who want a sound dog for their family that at the very least will give warning if some jackass is casing their home at night.

emoryg, i have no idea how things work on this board. link to video was placed in correct field but always after posting says some kind error to play it. that why i added link to video itself in post.

Prager
Have we lost it? Not yet. I hope that this will help you to understand.

i would say, today amount of GSDs with lack of dominance toward human and zest for fight already very alarming.

 

Joan, it's always best to do test a very young pup. it's the time when pup not yet has obtain learned experience and do respond the way he is genetically hardwired to respond.

as for 
"because a dog for LE will sell for a heck of a lot more, green, than selling for a pet or untrained sport prospect"
i'm not familiar how LE obtains their dogs. but i know what type of dogs was bred back then for border service. usually at least half of litter was returned back to border. among youngsters who failed, majority were fail due to too high aggressiveness.
i don't know to whom commercial breeder could re-home such dogs.

Hans

I appreciate your trying to answer my questions, but no. I want a pedigree. They claim there's many. Please don't give me your explanation again. I understand what you said. We all get the "breeding for this, while ignoring that" style of breeding. I know, top sport dogs are shit, Vikar uses them, their not defensive enough, but they're in basically all the dogs on Jiris site. I know, I know! Only you and Jiri know how to mix them with Cz lines.

To be honest, we both want the same things. But should I go talking shit about police dogs because the local dog ran away during fireworks on the 4th of July, or because I've seen a few videos of K9s not engaging or running away?

Most of us want the same thing. I think you'd be surprised, and so would others, if they actually got to see a top sport dog work, instead of listen to breeders of lawn ornaments running their ignorant rants. But who am I kidding? You already know this. Your dogs all contain WG sport dogs in their pedigree.

Actually makes me laugh. You know how many dogs sport people had to have in their pedigree because that dog brought aggression, defense and power....a "serious producing dog"....what sport person didn't have Mink in their pedigree 15 years ago....Amigo, Nick, etc....

Yeah, let's blame the sport people. Without them, the GSD would be nothing.

Valk: it's always best to do test a very young pup. it's the time when pup not yet has obtain learned experience and do respond the way he is genetically hardwired to respond.


Me: I disagree. How do people like Duke determine a two year old dog is suitable for LE if they must be tested as very young pups for being civil ?

How would you determine a pup is civli before it even has it's adult teeth, when it's too imature to push into civil response? Very young puppies are dynamic.
Training for sport should not destroy the genetics of a dog.

One thing I'd ask you....where have I said high end sport dogs have destroyed the breed? What I have maintained is that the wg sport dogs with the same pedigrees as LE dogs would be because of selection...different genetically inherited traits within a litter suited for different jobs.