GSD Breed survey - Page 3

Pedigree Database


by susie on 02 November 2018 - 19:11

As a German I can tell you the average German breeder is not smarter than for example the North American breeder...
Our advantage: we tend to train our dogs, and we are able to see a lot of dogs during training, that said our decisions are not based on hearsay and fancy pics.

by Rik on 02 November 2018 - 20:11

hund, I'm not sure the point you are trying to make.

dogs in the U.S. that train and trial under SV regulations do so exactly as in Germany, most times under German judges.

I doubt 1 of 100 ASL people even know there is such an organization as the SV. German dogs to them are a novelty, no matter how high placed in Germany or the world.

ASL is it's own world and it's own GSD. and it's many, many times larger than most here would ever imagine.



by susie on 02 November 2018 - 21:11

Rik, last time I checked the numbers there were 40.000 GSDs registered (not bred /year within AKC.

Within AKC it's the choice of the breeder to register a pup or not, even within one litter).

Do you know how many dogs have been bred and registered following SV rules(not imported, but actually bred in the States) in 2017 or 2018?

I'd guess less than 8%, but that's just a guess. I am not sure how much all those pregnant imported East European brood bitches do influence the numbers.

by Rik on 02 November 2018 - 23:11

the GSD is #2 breed in U.S.

AKC used to publish numbers born every year (from litters registered), but if they still do, I can't find it.

I think it is no longer correct to boast about such things, since so many end up in poor life. maybe someone else knows.

I think the number born is much higher than 40,000/year.

I have no idea on European dogs or even if there is a way to know. I would be surprised if it was even close to 8%, but I'm just guessing.

maybe others have more info.



by Hundmutter on 02 November 2018 - 23:11

@ Rik, I am not trying to make any 'point', I'm just trying to provide some context of why the UK version of a GSD Survey differs from the German system, even though it emulates it, in part. Its impossible to talk about our Survey unless I give those differences, because others would just confuse the two and might think ours is more advanced than it actually is. I do not wish to mislead anybody.

Any more than I wish to make any more abstruse connections, in the way that Gustav apparently suspects. I'm 'just telling it like it is', no more than that. My reference to how disparate the GSD population of the States is, in comparison with Europe, is purely about the way that population (and clubs etc associated with it) is spread out over a much larger country; I have not said anything about the quality of the dogs, nor do I intend to do so. Mainly because "How could I know ?" - but then, how can the average US dog owner know, either ? You have to start with some knowledge about how things are arranged before you can know to e.g. look up lists of results of USCA  competitions, for instance.  One of the moans on here from newbies has been that the GSD 'fraternity' are 'not terribly helpful to each other'. (Another difference to the UK, IMO). A lot of stuff (like how the Korung is ordered and what exactly is covered & why) can be gleaned from background reading on the breed, and about particular dogs by looking for videos, and reading pedigrees on here (at least when the owners have bothered to include their Survey Reports) - but of course people will try to short-cut that by asking their questions here on PDB ('other websites are available'). At least I'm trying to comment, in a general way, on the OP's request for further information as to how to find out which dogs to match together for the best result.

by Gertrude Besserwisser on 02 November 2018 - 23:11

The SV created the breed survey, i.e. Korung, for the GSD. Breed surveys must be done by SV Kormeisters, i.e. Breed Survey Masters and exactly as in Germany. No other kind are not recognized by the SV.

There may be some sort of other breed survey in the UK or elsewhere, but it is not recognized in Germany or for that matter the US.

I have done many breed surveys in the US. Clubs which want to hold a breed survey must apply through either the GSDCA or UScA which in turn send the request to the SV in Germany. The SV then will release a Kormeister to do the survey. The surveys must be done EXACTLY as in Germany. There is no variant. The breed survey forms are filled out in German by the Kormeister and then sent to the SV in Augsburg. Some months later, you receive a Korschein from the SV, a certification of the breed survey. It is in German on official SV stationery and signed by the Kormester. It is the only official document which is proof of the survey.

All this discussion of other kinds of surveys is wrong and confusing. Okay, some organization like the KC or whatever may call what they are doing a survey but it is nothing more than some sort of ersatz thing.


by Hundmutter on 03 November 2018 - 08:11

Gertrude, the UK Survey is nothing to do with the UK Kennel Club, it is a GSD Breed Council and SV Member Clubs thing, its been running for about 20 years and I can assure you, the SV and its Officers are fully aware of (and have been generally encouraging about) it.

Just as SV judges are about the quality of our dogs, when they accept Judging appointments over here. 

I claim no more for the UK Survey than that; but it IS a partial attempt at least to emulate the German system; [and the Korung is not solely about IPO scores, the dogs' capacity for the 'work' really being the element by which the two differ].

by whiteshepherds on 03 November 2018 - 14:11

The AKC delegate for the GSDCA published registration numbers for the GSD a few years ago covering the years 2009-2014 broken down by color.  Posting image, hopefully you can read it. 
In a recent AKC report (Sept 2018) it was stated that 41% of pups born are registered. (not broken down by breed and no idea how that number was reached)

An image


by Hundmutter on 09 November 2018 - 08:11

An afterthought to my posts above:
I have just been reminded that according to the ZAP regulations, the SV is unable to evaluate character assessments undertaken outside of Germany.
Since the part of IPO which relates to the Korung would seem to be mostly about 'character', and the bit 'missing' from the ("ersatz") UK Survey relates to IPO performance, does this mean our Survey would be n.b.g. no matter HOW closely it mirrored the SV Kor Report ? How does the US version sit with this, also ?

by Gertrude Besserwisser on 09 November 2018 - 15:11

At least, three clubs in the US that I know of, and there could be more, have held surveys since the ZAP requirement for GSDs. My understanding is that, at the moment, this is exclusively required for dogs in Germany between the ages of 9-13 months and not for those either born outside of Germany or who have left Germany earlier than this. Hence breed surveys performed outside of Germany on dogs which did not have to take the ZAP are allowed just as in the past.

Apparently, the WUSV would like to require all national breed clubs to start implementing the ZAP if they want to have SV breed surveys by SV Kormeisters performed on their dogs. The plan is for this to be in place by 2025. In the meantime, this is not a problem for non German born dogs or dogs who departed Germany before the age requirement for the ZAP. I have heard, though am not certain this is accurate, that some national clubs, such as the German Shepherd Club of Australia, are already implementing the ZAP. At this point, it would have to be conducted by an SV qualified tester as I do not think any foreign testers have been appointed...


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