GSD Breed survey - Page 2

Pardon my ignorance. Please explain the difference between the breed survey, German KOR report and UK surveys

hund, I could travel 300 miles and not get out of my state. which is not considered very large of the 50 in the U.S.

not trying to tie into your observation, just making a comment.

Rik

Rik - exactly, we are comparing vastly different distances (and dog distribution). Those of us in Europe, even when we consider the distances we have to cover to attend events or kennels as arduous, do not realise how easy we have it !

Hundmutter, many many people in United States routinely travel 300 miles every weekend just to train! I can’t see how traveling this distance a few times to make breeding decisions is this great difficulty. Hey, but I’ll leave it at that, maybe things have changed in the U.S.

OP, Gertrude listed the Requirements of the German version (the first & still the best) for you; the SV's 'Survey Report' IS the 'Kor Report', although the English title 'Survey' is often applied outside Germany, on English-speaking websites etc (like PDB !). The Survey System is called "Korung" [it should have an umlautt over the 'o'].

I don't know enough about the USA's version, it appears to me (I could be wrong) that, where the limited number of events take place Stateside, they have - or SOME of the Clubs have - a slightly altered version, but that others use German regulations entirely. I'll leave that whole area to my US colleagues to explain.

But I will say that the American version always seems to include the whole 'Work / perfomance' element, in that for 'SV acceptance' dogs must have at least Grade 1 in SchH/IPO/HGH + AD & BH. This is because the 'working side of the breed (as opposed to ASL Shows afficiandos) in accepting the German origins of the breed (for better or worse) accept wholesale along with it that the dogs should be 'worked', and should have to prove they can work. In essence this does boil down, it appears, for an awful lot of people, to the proven ability to do 'bitework' - without which probably many would forgo the whole shebang, because the Obedience and Tracking sections of IPO / SchH seem irrelevant to a lot of them. Not all; and because it isn't everybody, the American version, alongside the German Survey, is better than the UK Survey.

The UK Survey demands that dogs have: tattoos or microchips to identify them (and increasingly dogs are being DNA'd to that end, too); haemophilia A blood test; hip & elbow X ray scores; and then they are assessed as to whether they are a good & typical specimen of the breed, using 'ideal' size, proportions, secondary sexual characteristics, coat, angulation fore & rear, gait, and so on, as comparators. It tests temperament insofar as the Surveyor checks the dog is unafraid, and well behaved; it does not go into working ability or drives. The Show scene in the UK has a long history of not getting involved with the working side of the breed's makeup, Show dogs being bred mostly for their conformation / looks (most people on here would argue that is to their detriment), but at least to some extent based on and staying in line with the German 'blueprint' so most of our dogs are more 'germanic' looking than typical ASL dogs. There is a proportion of the breed ownership that has always been in favour of working their dogs alongside the demands of being pretty; but in the UK that led along the independent furrow of 'Obedience Trials' for decades, rather than IPO (and its forerunners) with its emphasis on bitework. Only more recently in our history have more owners adopted an interest in working competition. (The Brits have never had much time for biting dogs; and you have to factor in the prejudice against the German breeds during the War years !) This is reflected in the demands of the UK Survey; so far. Most change takes a long time ! The SV 'accepts' the UK Survey on dogs in the way it accepts other aberations from its WU Member Clubs worldwide.

@Gustav, its a matter of available TIME, surely ? If you have to travel so far, but your trip is confined e.g. to a weekend, you cannot possibly fit in the extra visits to fellow owners homes and kennels as well as spending time watching their dogs in Trial, (or gaiting around the Show ring, however briefly), or talking to a variety of people and actually meeting / getting hands on their dogs. Therefore, we have an easier task. Unless you have invented cars that travel at light-speed and we haven't been told yet.

Besides which, so many American 'breeders', and buyers, if this site is anything to go by, never go anywhere, to look at dogs. Its all done by videos, reputation and shipping. Can't really be good for the breed, can it?

You have not attempted to answer my further question to you.

The USCA ( in America) has over 200 active clubs that use the same show and performance requirements as Germany....smh!
The ASL is similar to the Alsatian in United Kingdom.

Ok, Hundmutter, I’m not going to argue the German Shepherd scene in terms of breeding, working, etc, with you. Travel, distance and size of the country restricts us. We’ll leave it at that.

OP, Gustav is quite correct, 'the ASL is similar to the UK Alsatian' (if you did not already gather that); fortunately,IMO, the Alsatian is now in a descending minority here.

But the same thing applies - when 'Alsatian type' was in the ascendency in UK Show rings, it was almost entirely a section of the GSD world where everything was placed on beauty competition and none on working potential. Only a very few owners of Alsatians took the trouble to train their dogs formally; and only a tiny proportion of those did anything outside Obediance.

I also think that it is interesting that 'Alsatianists' over the years have been the most reluctant, in general, to take up health etc tests as they became available, whereas the international / 'Germanic' set have generally wanted to adopt such improvements, and incorporate them. Having a Survey system at all, for one example.

 

 

Cliff, don't be chicken !  It isn't as though I made the distances involved some central tenet of a major theory about dog breeding; I just pointed out it must get difficult sometimes, in an attempt to answer the OP's query about how to find the right dogs to mate.  Bear in mind that 300 + mile journeys are NOT usual for UK breeders, they can often find promising studs MUCH closer to home !

It usually isn't quite that far to get to training clubs either - though because there are still few SchH clubs, they often do involve journeys on the overcrowded roads of this small island that are tiring and trying !  So there really ought to be more.  (However, given the sheer size of the States and the huge dog population, not sure USCA's 200 is that much to write home about).

Still waiting to hear just what it is you have interpreted my post as trying to say.

 

 

Is it fair to say then that in Germany they take more into account the qualities and deficiencies of the dogs and pair them up in a manner that will improve the offspring? Or is this something that is done everywhere? I don’t see breeders here in the US taking that into account. Mostly what is see is breeding for looks and hopes of a “good balanced dog” but I don’t see many breeders talking about how to pair them up to improve their offspring. Maybe I’m just overthinking this...