Czech/DDR Good VS Bad? - Page 11

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by apple on 24 September 2018 - 15:09

First, I watched video of the parents and then I researched how they had produced, and then I got help from people who knew many of the dogs close up in the pedigree as well as the dogs the breeding was line bred on. Gustav was a big help and he pretty much nailed, based on his pedigree analysis, what type of dog the breeding would produce.

by Juno on 24 September 2018 - 16:09


It is funny, I did the same including Gustav’s evaluation of the pedigree where he pretty much nailed it too. In addition, I spoke to the breeder both here in the US who bought the parents and the original breeder of the parents in Europe.

by Prager on 24 September 2018 - 16:09

@valK you see this is the BS which key bord warriors like you generate. I do not know why you write this crap. Jealousy maybe? What I mean is that you in one and same post admit that you have never seen DDR dogs or z Ps dogs and then in that same post you have a firm opinion on their low quality. Then the rest is just an uneducated opinion which as you admitted is not based on experience with these lines and on top of it you can not prove any of it. SMH

by joanro on 24 September 2018 - 17:09

Valk: if these old czech dogs was anything like DDR developed type (with whom i familiar) then what is Czech breeders produces today, including Jinopo, way too far away from it.

Prager, valk's statement, above, contradicts your argument that he " never saw either zps dogs nor ddr dogs."

by Rik on 24 September 2018 - 19:09

joan said: A good dog is what the person desires. To some people a good dog is a Czech border patrol bred dog before all the west German sport blood diluted the old school zps or pzs szp pedigrees.( Hitting the p key before the z key, still understood by intelligent people what I meant) Anyway, some people won't settle for the old timey zps dogs when they want high scoring podium dogs...nosirree, they want the the west German sport dogs like what the zps dogs have been diluted with. For others, a good dog is a black and red german show line that is low on drives of any flavor that will just lay around the house and look beautiful. Then there are those who, for them, a good dog is an American show line that will win in the conformation ring and not ever bark at any one. So, the term " good dog" depends on the individual person' s wants or needs.

this is absolutely true. the GSD has branched in so many directions that everyone must decide for themselves what a GSD is. it's not too hard to research and find what a GSD was meant to be, it is pretty hard to find dogs that meet this orginal goal.




by Prager on 24 September 2018 - 20:09

GOOD DOG you say? 


All this started with me mentioning "good GSD" and I have thought that most would know what it means and was waiting for someone else than me to correct Joanro's definition. However, now I am realizing that none of the people who posted on this issue know what 'Good GSD" means.
That is why I am forced to explain what I have meant when I mentioned: "Good GSD" in my former post which started all this IMO nonsense ..... Yes, IMO it is a total nonsense to say that "good GSD" is a dog who has the genetics to fulfill his job for his owner. Such a definition is a detriment to the breed because it leads to narrow genetic specialization of individuals of the breed and that is not what GSD should be. It is not correct characteristic of GSD to be narrowly specialized. Such a notion is wrong because it leads to the genetical compartmentalization of the breed. Good GSD must be much more than genetically narrowly specific breed bred in a way so that one individual can do "this" but cannot do "that" and vice versa.
Example:... if I breed dog for sport or show ....and sportsperson of show person gets it and is happy with the dog yet the dog could not find his way out of wet paperback in protection situation is that a "Good GSD"?!?
I do not think so!!! In my book, such a dog is NOT A GOOD GSD. How about that? As you can imagine I can give you scores of other examples like that one, but you get the jest of it.
By my standard Good GSD is as follows:
Good GSD is a working dog which is healthy and is up to the standard of GSD as it was originally intended by Max Von Stephanitz who created the breed. The body structure of such a dog needs to be built to perform a work. GSD should have the build of an athlete in order to physically do any work with ease while performed gracefully.
Further, mentally the GSD must not be just a dog which fits someone's single purpose as someone erroneously eluded here, but it must be more than that! GSD must be a versatile representative of the breed which will be able to work and perform well many tasks which are put in front of each dog. I do not mean that GSD should be Jack of all trades, but what I am saying is that each individual "good GSD" has to have the capability to master any task put in front of him. Good GSD must be able to be trained to be for example as an S&R dog or family dog or LE dog or whatever. Each individual should be able to follow any path of training any other GSD can follow. 

by joanro on 24 September 2018 - 20:09

Actually, a good dog is determined by the population of gsd owners! Period. That is why the breed is so hugely diverse!

by Prager on 25 September 2018 - 15:09

Well, actually, what is "good dog" had been determined by Max v Stephanitz. That is what I subscribe to. I am stubborn that way. If you think that what is good is determined by masses then go ahead if you think that it is good. I do not.


by Prager on 25 September 2018 - 15:09

LOL now we disagree on what is a "good dog" . It never crossed my mind before, that that is possible. :)

by ValK on 25 September 2018 - 16:09

i'm not competing breeder, neither dogs dealer. why i should be jealous?
i did live behind "iron curtain" and DDR dog was only the dogs, available to us. thus at that time we just didn't know any others kind of GSDs.

i didn't know czech dogs simply because nobody bring them in. why? i don't know. perhaps at that time they were not good enough to compete with dogs from DDR.
not having experience of practical interaction with them, i can't have good or bad opinion about old czech dogs. but i can presume, since in the past the dogs in zPS breeding program was heavily bred on the DDR import, the goal of zPS seemed to be to develop the type, identical to DDR type.
if that so, then todays offering from Jinopo coop, beside very rare exceptions, do not have dogs of that type.

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