Thoughts on this breeding - Page 5

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by ValK on 02 July 2018 - 15:07

i'm really can't grasp point of this talk. in the dogs world, particularly one, used to be practical working breed,
purpose was and should remain - produce the dogs, suitable for work. to reach such goal, the both of matting
specimens must have certain traits suitability for set goals, with probability to produce at least 50% of satisfactory
offspring, with another half to be washed out of breeding due to flaws.

so, what is the logic behind idea to mate weak specimen to strong one, if apriory already known, less than exciting
result will be achieved?

susie

by susie on 02 July 2018 - 20:07

Valk, right now it´s just about statistically probabilities, not about "common sense".

Cent, you really should start to read ( and understand ) my posts.
I tried it twice, but now I´ll try it a third time -

1. THE MORE SIMILAR THE DOGS THE MORE SIMILAR THE OUTCOME.

2. AS LONG AS A "TRAIT" EXISTS IN AT LEAST ONE SINGLE DOG OF A BREED IT´S POSSIBLE TO "BREED THIS TRAIT BACK".

3. GENETICALLY THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A "LINEBREEDING FREE" WORKINGLINE BREEDING AND A WORKING/SHOWLINE BREEDING.

Does it make sense to breed 2 totally different dogs? Only in case you do have enough time, patience, knowledge, and money to keep and select the next generations, slowly reaching your goal.

Would I do that? No. It´s way easier to start with 2 similar dogs, already fitting my goals.

Is it a no-go to breed a showline to a workingline? No, there are still enough showlines able to work, and there are still enough workinglines fitting the standard ( at least in my country - maybe it´s different in your country ?!? ).

As soon as someone thinks about a working/showline breeding he / she should use the best dogs available, not thinking in one generation, but in at least 2 or 3 generations.
No good dogs available? Don´t breed, no matter the lines...

Is it possible? Yes
Is it difficult? Yes
Is it a good idea?
Depends on the goal in mind

Only as a sidenote: you always loose 50% of the genetic material ( sire/dam) no matter the breeding.
Back to point no1...

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 03 July 2018 - 06:07

@Centurian: The researchers on whose reports I've based my interpretation of the current understanding of genetics do not ever speak / write in terms of dividing up the process of regulation of genetic expression into different sections (for health, temperament, etc) when they tell us of the complexity of these "On / Off" factors. When they do so, perhaps I'll take that "step back" you suggest.

There seems no earthly reason why, in practical terms, the "transcription factors" involved in some genes should not work in the same way as in other genes.  Indeed, I feel it would be more surprising if they did work 'differently' - outside of the varying applications of being tissue-specific, of having binding proteins, etc - (and have heard of no theories as to what that different method could be, or why it might occur).

HAVE A DEFINITION:

"Gene regulation is the process of turning genes on and off. During early development, cells begin to take on specific functions. Gene regulation ensures that the appropriate genes are expressed at the proper times. Gene regulation can also help an organism respond to its environment. Gene regulation is accomplished by a variety of mechanisms including chemically modifying genes and using regulatory proteins to turn genes on or off."

NATIONAL HUMAN GENOME RESEARCH INSTITUTE.

 

ALL such research inevitably declares somewhere that: "We know that the regulation of genes is critical for life; but this complex process is not yet fully understood."

 

You maintain that "behavioural traits are not multi-factorial, as (some) diseases are" - based on what information ?

So how come my interpretation of reported genetic progress helps explain the subtle differences in aptitude and character between various puppies in one litter, and yours does not ?

 

As to that "missing" 50% :  genes 'turned off' at cellular level are repressed, and described as 'inactive'; they DO NOT 'disappear' from the cells of the body.

 

And yes, humans have (some) ability to influence our chromosomes and the expression of our DNA (now)...but given the multi-factorial difference between human breeding practices, and dog-breeding, though, I reckon we have far more practical effect upon the latter, don't you ?


by Mackenzie on 03 July 2018 - 08:07

Susie - Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up

I think that too many breeders do not know or understand the art of breeding, also, too many just "follow the leader"

 

Hundemutter - Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up

 

Mackenzie






 


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