OCD Puppy - Genetic? Treatment Options? - Page 3

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by Hundmutter on 30 January 2018 - 06:01

Junkmail, we are all wishing you luck ! I must say, even with (or, perhaps, aided by ) the change in site of the problem from hocks to stifles, this thred has been extremely interesting and I hope other people lurking and reading have gained knowledge from it - I know I have.

by junkmail2014nov on 30 January 2018 - 13:01

Yes. I am very hopeful. I have also put in a call to an eastern medicine vet/specialist who treats osteo inflammatory conditions in dogs and horses, I’ve already reached out to Michigan U to their specialist there, they have some new conservative treatments their head DVM specialist is going to send me information on, and finally, there is movement of or development of a type of Synvisc injection for dogs. They do it now in humans, I’ve had it myself having had 5 knee surgeries over my life time, and it is extremely helpful if done in the very early stages of inflammatory development in the knee. So all of this gives me much hope.

I lost my other girl of 9 years last fall very suddenly to a CA tumor. We had gone jogging that day and then that night she screamed in pain when I touched her abdomen. Two hours later I was looking at an Xray that told the horror of a fast growing cancerous tumor that was silent and pernicious. I was devastated. She had acclaimed naturally to my disability and all we had to do was certify her in Public Access. I was so very hesitant to get this little one. I had not fully grieved my loss. With all that has happened now it has truly been a nightmare. But I just cannot look into her face and eyes and not be bonded with her. She deserves a chance.

by Hundmutter on 30 January 2018 - 17:01

So sorry to hear that. It's always hell to lose a loved dog. She is out of pain now.

by junkmail2014nov on 30 January 2018 - 18:01

Well, as the saga continues, I just received a call today. Literally 10 minutes ago. Two different consults for the radiographs are both saying bi-lateral OCD of the stifle (knee). The left shows more development than the right. The same Ortho specialist that did the ACL repair of my older girl is seeing her Thursday at 7AM and I see the other Ortho/middle eastern specialist this afternoon at 5PM EDT. The radiographs are being sent to me right now. The file size is quite large. So far though, the first three consults are all saying that it has been caught early enough that they think it can be treated and she will be fine long term until about age 10 estimated. This is as long as she’s not a highly physical working dog, i.e. police dog etc. Soooooo......we’ll see.

by junkmail2014nov on 30 January 2018 - 19:01

I forgot to mention, if I could have some opinions on the radiographs I would appreciate it. Please PM me and I will send you a link to them. I do not wish to post in open forum. Thank you in advance to everyone.


by susie on 30 January 2018 - 20:01

Just out of curiosity ( I am German, for me the term "service dog" explain nothing ) : what kind of "service" will your dog be supposed to do?

by junkmail2014nov on 31 January 2018 - 02:01

I have an impairment that does not allow me to know certain, necessary facts about my environment. This makes it dangerous when I travel anywhere. I will not know if things happen that are an emergency and that require that I need to change what I do in order to stay safe. Yes, I am being purposely vague.

In the US, a “true” Service Dog, according to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), provides a “service” to meet a legitimate need of a human which they cannot perform for themselves. Ex:

1. A paraplegic who cannot pick up things, answer the door, get the phone etc.
2. A vision impaired individual or a person completely blind who cannot see a car coming etc. etc.
3. A hearing impaired person who cannot hear a car, hear a fire alarm, hear their name, etc. etc.

There are people who use their dogs as “Emotional Support Dogs” or ESDs and in some cases this is a good thing. However, like all things it is abused. So you have people that go to their doctor or counselor and ask them to write a memo stating they need their dog to keep them calm when in reality they just don’t want to be without their pet and their pet is woefully misbehaved and lacks training.

Service Dogs can also smell glucose levels dropping in humans and help diabetics know when they are about to reach their limit. They can smell very slight changes in human pheromones and anticipate when a PTSD episode is about to happen to a vet or someone who suffers from PTSD and help the person re-focus. They can smell/anticipate certain types of seizures in people with Epilepsy and/or pre-frontal and frontal cortex seizures. Except for paraplegia and blindness, these other conditions are known as “hidden disabilities” because they can seriously impair a person’s ability to function in life and in their ability to earn a living, however it is unseen and unnoticed by the public. Hence the term “hidden disability.”

I disagree that we should substitute the word “challenge” for a disability. A disability simply means that I am at a distinct “disadvantage” as compared to the majority of most others I encounter. Yes it is a “challenge” to deal with however it does not mean I cannot have a healthy and productive life. Especially with a canine companion who is bonded to me and trained to help me know what is going on around me to stay safe. And I do consider it a “challenge” to continue to move forward on somedays. However, I also consider myself lucky because I also get to see the world from a distinct perspective that others do not and very much take for granted.

I know this is a long and drawn out explanation but I hope it helps. I honestly had no idea how difficult life can be when one of the five human senses are taken away; or when a person’s ability to physically take care of themselves in certain aspects is taken away. Canines help people maintain independence, provide companionship, give a reason to get up in the morning when sometimes you can’t even imagine doing it. My disability has occurred very rapidly in the last two years. Because of this my brain still processes information as if I am NOT experiencing an impairment. So it take a lot to get used to. Add to this I am single and have been independent for most of my life.

I’ll go out on a limb and openly say this: right now there isn’t a lot the US seems to be doing right. But in terms of the ADA laws and allowing Canines to assist humans who truly need it, and then to pass laws to protect those canines who help us?....This is one thing we seem to be doing right. Hopefully this will continue.

by junkmail2014nov on 01 February 2018 - 14:02

Good Morning All,

So final consult this morning was at 7AM. The following is the information gathered and my decision moving forward:
1. There IS degeneration on the lateral condyle.
2. There ARE “...Clinically significant changes bi-laterally in both stifles...the left more than the right...shelf mice present on the left...”
3. Because this is a bi-lateral condition, and there is "significant manifestation of orthotic changes in both joints," with the presence of shelf mice, the diagnosis is OCD.
4. The ortho is the same ortho I have used before. He is NOT a big cutter. In fact my other old girl who passed away, when she tore her ACL he recommended an anti inflammatory diet, rest, and waiting three months to see if she would heal before doing surgery.

So my little one has surgery late this afternoon. The ortho is discounting the surgery and is only charging me for “one leg.” He will take “several pictures of the joints” for documentation purposes. He recommends working with the other vet, whom he’s known for several years, to get her on an anti-inflammatory diet and stay there. He recommends NOT spaying her until age 2. He says that after the surgery if I follow these instructions, do the hydro therapy, take care of her weight and activity levels, (i.e. not letting her lounge around and get fat but not playing frisbee with her every day) she should make a full recovery and live a long life and be a good companion and service dog for me.

He also recommended after she finished therapy and recovery that we move off of Rimadyl and onto things like Embrace Glucosamine Chondroitin supplement as well as a “really good diet with really good, well made dog food.” He said Fromm was a good one. So kudos to whoever recommended that brand. Finally, he recommends letter the breeder know what has been discovered “...so that the breeder can test the lines.” I did not inform him that I’ve yet to receive the AKC registration papers and that the breeder is, thus far, refusing to give them to me. She stays over night tonight and comes home tomorrow afternoon. He will research someone in the area I am moving to at the end of this month who can continue with follow up care. My $2000.00 European Pure Bread GSD has now turned into a $10,000.00 medical nightmare.

If anyone would have recommendations on what to do moving forward to aid her recovery process I would be very grateful. At this point I am beginning to run out of steam. Thank you all in advance for any information provided.


by Hundmutter on 01 February 2018 - 18:02

Sounds like she is in good hands, I did warn you it could prove expensive, but it will be worth it if she has a pain-free life afterwards. Sending all good thoughts ! Take a moment while you can to try to get your breath back !

I don't think you will go wrong if you follow the course for recovery being set out for her. Hydrotherapy, provided you can find it, is an excellent recuperative process. Sorry I can't recommend any pools from here, in the event the vet does not have their own, but someone in your neck o' the woods may be able to. In the immediate aftermath of the surgery however you will doubtless be told to keep her as constrained as possible, to rest her and avoid damaging the repair work. Please, if the vet tells you she has to have cage rest, comply with that. Too much work has been undone by owners who thought they could let their dog run around before it should be walking again ! This is not going to be easy, she is still a puppy and pups do not appreciate restriction !

Very best of luck, going forward. As time goes by, do come back to PDB and tell us how she is getting on. We may be able to supply more ideas on exercise etc as she becomes ready for it.

by junkmail2014nov on 01 February 2018 - 19:02

Hundmutter: Thank you for you words of encouragement. Her surgery is at 4PM today. Dr. Simmons said that the absolute ONLY kink would be if there is ANY growth plate micro fracture or fracture of any kind involving the growth plate. He said in 2% of the cases this sometimes occurs. He said he didn’t anticipate this because her weight in proportion to her height/size/bone structure/growth was a very good ratio and even on the “lean” side which he said was really good. (Yay! At least I’ve done ONE thing right throughout this.) If there is GP involvement then no, she cannot be a service dog but she could live a very comfortable 6-7 years as a good family companion before she began having any issues. If this occurs then I will re-home her with someone who has been screened thoroughly. Presuming everything goes well the treatment plan is as follows:

1. 24-48 at the vet (the extra day is only depending on her recovery, anesthesia, what he finds etc.)
2. Home for create rest for two weeks. Out only to poo and pee for the first 72 hours; do not let her walk except to find her poo/pee spot
3. After 72 hours; poo/pee only, on grass preferably; crating most of the rest of the time and can then move to a bit larger, but still confined, small area.
4. 7 days post op; poo/pee walks with intermittent 2-5 minute walks; then again, confinement.
5. at the 14 day post op mark her stitches come out and they take X-rays again to make sure she is healing well and showing no hairline fractures
6. presuming X-rays are good she starts hydro therapy that day. They have their own.
7. Continue confinement at home with hydrotherapy 3 days per week gradually increasing the walks by a minute or two each week for two weeks. Walks can be every two to three hours or so but make sure to keep her as quiet as possible.
8. Meds will be Rimadyl and Trazadone for the pain management and inflammation after surgery, and crating. If I HAVE to use it, he will proscribe a small dose of Ace for her.
9. Recommended gradual diet change (over 2-3 weeks), not to start until 5 days after surgery if she's doing well. 1st choice Fromm cans Turkey Gold Pate, 2nd choice a mix of above cans with dry Fromm Hasen Duckenpfeffer. 3rd choice the dry only. Glucosamine supplement recommended Annamaet Endure, available online.
10. Then on the 23rd of this month, which will be four weeks post op (almost) and right before the day my movers come to move me to MI, we take a second set of xrays and he will have found me someone to work with in MI to follow up with her care.
11. He did also say that the other vet who specializes in Chinese Vet Medicine is an excellent idea and that if that Dr. can see her after the two week mark that acupuncture along with the hydro therapy would work well together for her recovery and that the handling and acupuncture would also help with her socialization for what she’s missing out on right now.
12. He said do not spay her until she’s two. She needs to go through her full two heats to aid in bone growth development and then spay her. He said to make sure she is not bred.

Ideally he likes them to have hydro therapy 3 days a week for 6 weeks so he’s going to try to find someone up where I am moving to who can do this.

So.....presuming all goes well, or even if it doesn’t, for now, this is all I can do. Does all this sound like its appropriate, good, care, and appropriate, good treatment plans? Please, anyone offer an opinion. All information is welcome. Thank you all in advance.

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