Athos at 3 years and 8 months - Page 2

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by Centurian on 17 November 2017 - 13:11

Thank you Bee ..

That is exactly what I thought it meant.
And it reminds me of also the faulty foolish concept decribed also to channel behavior : 'capping the drive' . Both leaking and the capping of the drive [ foolish faulty concepts] .... go hand in hand...... and I leave it at that ...

by beetree on 17 November 2017 - 14:11

@Centurion. I think some very astute dog people do think differently than you do.

@Hundmutter. Vocalizing, spinning, or pacing would be examples.

by apple on 17 November 2017 - 17:11

I have no idea what you are talking about and don't think you do either. Training dogs in drive is all about eliciting and building drive and being able to cap and neutralize the drive. The end result is a highly motivated dog with very good control. Maybe you could explain what you are referring to.

by Hundmutter on 17 November 2017 - 17:11

Beetree, thank you.

by susie on 17 November 2017 - 17:11

Thank you, apple. Sometimes I tend to think I am the only one not able to follow those spiritual thoughts...
Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 17 November 2017 - 18:11

Athos vocalizes. It's because of me. I'm not very fast, I'm on crutches. I haven't been as consistent in his training as I should have been. He's a very clear headed dog, he's super motivated, wants to please and work. When he's out working the public, it's a different picture alltogether and you woldn't even believe it's the same dog. I'll post a video where you can see what I'm talking about. It's minor leaking, nothing that I am worried about and if you truly think that this makes him a horrible dog, than you really don't know what you are talking about.

by apple on 17 November 2017 - 18:11

Looks like he is just a bit frustrated because you have to go slower forcing him to cap/go slower. He looks very agile and like a happy worker.
Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 17 November 2017 - 19:11

Yeah, his leaking is simple frustration. It's me. I am this dogs primary weakness. But not for long. Soon, soon we can go back to flying down the field together.
Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 17 November 2017 - 19:11

Yeah, his leaking is simple frustration. It's me. I am this dogs primary weakness. But not for long. Soon, soon we can go back to flying down the field together. It's been two long years and the light is finally shining at the end of the tunnel.

by Centurian on 17 November 2017 - 22:11

Apple that is the problem with current day trainers . They are stuck in ol time ideas and terminology .

I used to think that way 30 years ago , and I was taught and tested exactly as you described .. So apple , tell me .. this dog has the innate motivation to perform ... what more does anyone want from this dog , what is there to build. This dog has it .. no need to build or create drive. In that sense what would that have to do with teaching this dog.

The problem with 'drive' is that it does not describe what the dog is thinking and feeling, how it is perceiving , and what it's needs and motivations specifically are . What you described apple happens to the undercurrent to poor , very very very poor training .. And lacks many concepts that should be included in teaching a dog. If the dog was taught exactly , then you would get exactly that. We get from a dog what it has the capability to learn . If we have to cap and neutralize ... then something in the teaching is drastically wrong. Not the dog , the teaching !! I gice an example of a dog outing[ assuming that it does not have a problem stemming from genetics] . If a dog does notmout , then the teachingh of the out on that Individual dog was incorrect. If the dog goes forward in the stand in motion , it has nothing to do with drive , but asll to do with teaching. With the correct understanding of the dog's motivation, and the correct communication , the dog would lock up and perform correctly . Beahviors would not have to be neutralized if the dog was taught correctly.

Apple , because you don't adequately understand what I am saying , your assessment of what is going on with the dog and it's performance is not correct- you say frusrtated , hell no . Not only not correct , I wonder if you know what is going on in this dog.. This dog is NOT frustrated. Not an ounce of frustration in this dog. Other features, however , are present , one of which is anticipation. There are a few other features I put off discussing . There is no drive that needs to be capped here, there is no leaking here in this video either . But I do see other factors that have come into play in the teaching and communicating to this dog-- And I leave it at that . The dog is behaving and performing has nothing to do with speedand over zeal . We've trained malinios who are much faster jumping the hurdle over and back in French Ring . This dog is doing extremely well . The dog is fantastic and so is the handler. What is apparent is how the dog was taught. What the expectations of the dog iare or are not . The picture in the dog's mind , that is what you see , by what the dog had done.

BTW , she is not forcing the dog to go slower... and even if she was slow , and I don't think at all she is , it shouldn't matter. The dog should do what is asked of it - dogs should learn discpiline and part of that is self control and patience.

BE , is this is you in the video ? ... I tell you we teach this hurdle jump in French Ring. I sometimes start 4 month pups months exercise. I wrote a long explanation to give you some pointers , ... but decided to delete it. For example, [ innthe first hurdle jump ] the target mats are to closto the hirdle for trajectory take off and , the Final* Placement after the hurdle jump. Yes , the dog can jump with ease ! - I see that . But in the exectution of the exercise and the teaching to the dog- the mats should be placed differently and utiized differently.[ one tidbit of info ] . So I leave it at that . .

I am tired through the decades of people that get so tunnel visioned in canine terminology and so stuck in their ways , so much so they either think they know it all , or that they have no room for any further understanding. Que sera sera....

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