2-2 Line/In breeding - Page 3

I've done 3-2 breeding four different litters with two different males out of two females who were sisters. Excellent results, very consistent .

There is nothing political in what the WUSV and the SV are doing. The breed has been inbred too much in the last twenty five years with the result that more health problems have now to be tested plus the loss of many breed traits including character and workability. The majority of the problems have arisen from the Show Dogs.

I have read on this PDB in this thread and other threads posters have said they have made close inbreeding and were satisfied with the results but none have admitted to having some of the failures and faults of the inbreed. The continuation of close inbreeding is just stamping the problems further into the breed.

All of this is done without a care in the world about the damage being done.

Mackenzie

If I had failures, I would not say all results were positive. No hip prob, temperaments and nerves strong, drives balanced and all with clear heads , sound structure... Happy happy !

Stamping in best traits and genetic strengths...have offspring from line bred dogs to prove it.

Actually, Mackenzie, nothing better, scientifically speaking, if you want to find the flaws in your lines, to do a tight breeding and cull. Whatever problems in "show dogs" as you say exist, exist because people are selecting the WRONG traits, not because of linebreeding.

Jenni, 

And Mackenzie, I am not saying inbreeding can't produce problems- I'm saying that no matter how closely you breed, if a particular problem isn't in the dogs' genetic make-up, it won't come up. Breeding outcrosses to outcrosses all the time simply lessens the chances of the problem surfacing in each particular pairing- it's not doing anything to eliminate the genes.

Actually Jenni78 it has been known for many years that close inbreeding not only stamps in good points but also the bad points and problems. Your vet or any geneticist will tell you.

It became clear to me that the close inbreeding that occurred in Germany in the 1990's was not good and the only consistent thing from that time has been the color. I stopped all breeding from 1994 and I have not bred anything from that time.

People will always breed for the wrong trait ignoring the inbreed or outcross matings.

Mackenzie

Yea!!! to Mackenzie for telling it like it is.

When the good genes come together, they are good. When the bad genes come together, they are really, really bad. And don't fool yourselves, the freaks that happen are the UGLY truth, and culling them, means: dead.

If you know you will have to kill those ones to get those "clones" being sought, that is the issue one should be confronting before attempting such close line breedings. This site has a horrific example of this exact scenario in its pages. It is an eye opener for the uninitiated.

YaYax4--

I look for OFA (or non-U.S. equivalent organization) certified hips and no DM, meaning not even a carrier. (Some) of the information is available here on PDB in the pedigree. The information you want may not be on PDB because the testing hasn't been done, the results aren't back yet, or the owner has not yet uploaded the results to PDB. However, you can search on the OFA website for a specific dog. You can also see what tests are recommended for each breed, read about the various disorders, see what each test entails (x-rays, blood test, exam, etc.), and see what the different ratings and certifications mean.

http://www.ofa.org/index.html

I would also look at the breed survey if I were going to send my bitch overseas for breeding. Good for here in the U.S., too, but I don't see it as often as overseas, and in the U.S. I can actually go see the potential stud for myself.

https://www.germanshepherddog.com/about/german-shepherd-dogs/breed-surveys/

http://gsdca.org/images/SV%20Documents/Breed%20Survey%20Rules%20and%20Procedures%20041215.pdf

http://gsdca.org/images/SV%20Documents/GSDCA%20Breed%20Survey%20Guidelines%20011016.pdf

This is so important to me that until I have the health tests done after my dog turns two, I won't even consider breeding her. If the results show she is an appropriate candidate for breeding, then the decision will be made whether or not to breed, and if so, to whom. If it is at all possible, I will also do breed survey before making the decision of whether or not to breed her.

Telling it like it is??? More like not understanding what was intended.

Mackenzie, you're not seeing what I am saying- my point is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to "make" genes show up when linebreeding or inbreeding if the genes don't exist in the pair in the first place. I am not talking about spontaneous mutations. On the contrary, it *is* possible to weed problems out in some cases, by exposing who is carrying them and go from there to breed away from certain problems.

I agree that regardless of inbreeding or linebreeding, people will still select for the wrong traits. However, that is too subjective to cover here.

I'm not quite sure why Beetree says I mean "kill" when I said "cull." If I meant kill I would say kill. But I don't. I mean, say, never breed any dog from a certain pairing if something nasty cropped up, place them all in non-breeding homes, vasectomized or with hysterectomies. That is every bit as effective as preventing reproduction as killing the poor things.