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by Centurian on 31 July 2017 - 16:07
Vito .... attention in heeling as it is tlked about is a misconception .... let me start with this ...
Any time you are handling a dog... the dog is only 50% of the equation , you being the other 50% . Each is a topic in itself. Looking at some one is a physical manifestation, and just because a dog is staring at you in the face .. that is not entirely attention. How can I liken this .. For example : a student in a class looking at a teacher but his mind is on something else, day dreaming .
Q Man brings up something important... And on that post , I bring up the concept of " Mindfulness " ... My dog can be with it's eyes on me , but not mindful of me - That is to say the dog can be starring at me but his thoughts are not with me .That is NOT " Attention " .
As Q Man refernced in other sports they want the dog's eyes on the man for examole if it going to attack. The opposite can be ture in Mindfulness : the dog eyes can be on the decoy ,but , a big but here , the dog's mind is and can be centered on me as he views the decoy. - Looking for my direction literally and figuratively .[ I did not use specifically the word command ]. That is attention on a different level. When I heel my dogs they are not merely looking at me in the face heeling. There thoughts are centered different than simply staring in a face and walking. So what do you think attention in essence is and what factors do you think come into play ?
Vito , what you wrote has a lot of merit - a very very nice post ... But this is no the all ... And yes .. ditto , I don't care if something is present or not for my dog seen or unseen... Dogs gravitate to stimulie food , a toy , But that is not where I want my dogs to gravitate to ... Where do you weant your dpogs to gravitate to ?
That is why I have repeatedly discussed the fallacy of ' reward 'training. But Micheal Ellis , [ I think he is fantastic , recc. any one to view his videos to learn ], is not comprehensive and not entirely correct conceptually- he neglects some important points. . When he teaches and as in your advice , there lacks something in conversation and theory about ' attention'.
On that note I don't train technique or methods because the solution for one dog and handler developing attention when there is a problem can be very very different than another dog /hanlder.
Any time you are handling a dog... the dog is only 50% of the equation , you being the other 50% . Each is a topic in itself. Looking at some one is a physical manifestation, and just because a dog is staring at you in the face .. that is not entirely attention. How can I liken this .. For example : a student in a class looking at a teacher but his mind is on something else, day dreaming .
Q Man brings up something important... And on that post , I bring up the concept of " Mindfulness " ... My dog can be with it's eyes on me , but not mindful of me - That is to say the dog can be starring at me but his thoughts are not with me .That is NOT " Attention " .
As Q Man refernced in other sports they want the dog's eyes on the man for examole if it going to attack. The opposite can be ture in Mindfulness : the dog eyes can be on the decoy ,but , a big but here , the dog's mind is and can be centered on me as he views the decoy. - Looking for my direction literally and figuratively .[ I did not use specifically the word command ]. That is attention on a different level. When I heel my dogs they are not merely looking at me in the face heeling. There thoughts are centered different than simply staring in a face and walking. So what do you think attention in essence is and what factors do you think come into play ?
Vito , what you wrote has a lot of merit - a very very nice post ... But this is no the all ... And yes .. ditto , I don't care if something is present or not for my dog seen or unseen... Dogs gravitate to stimulie food , a toy , But that is not where I want my dogs to gravitate to ... Where do you weant your dpogs to gravitate to ?
That is why I have repeatedly discussed the fallacy of ' reward 'training. But Micheal Ellis , [ I think he is fantastic , recc. any one to view his videos to learn ], is not comprehensive and not entirely correct conceptually- he neglects some important points. . When he teaches and as in your advice , there lacks something in conversation and theory about ' attention'.
On that note I don't train technique or methods because the solution for one dog and handler developing attention when there is a problem can be very very different than another dog /hanlder.
by Vito Andolini on 01 August 2017 - 02:08
Cent,
Same can be said for dogs in different venues, but let's stay in IPO for this example. Is the dog's mind on the helper or the sleeve, etc. in The back transport, side transport? The back transport, im sure the dog is focused on the helper because he knows if he turns, i get a bite.
Is his mind on the helper though? Or is he daydreaming of The sleeve? Seriously, wtf are we even talking about? The O.P. asked about focused heeling. Nothing more. You keep saying attention. I know what motivates my dog and how to utilize that motivation. I think my reply earlier explained that. I think we try to make dogs more complicated than they are. They aren't cats. That's for damn sure!
Same can be said for dogs in different venues, but let's stay in IPO for this example. Is the dog's mind on the helper or the sleeve, etc. in The back transport, side transport? The back transport, im sure the dog is focused on the helper because he knows if he turns, i get a bite.
Is his mind on the helper though? Or is he daydreaming of The sleeve? Seriously, wtf are we even talking about? The O.P. asked about focused heeling. Nothing more. You keep saying attention. I know what motivates my dog and how to utilize that motivation. I think my reply earlier explained that. I think we try to make dogs more complicated than they are. They aren't cats. That's for damn sure!
by Vito Andolini on 01 August 2017 - 02:08
BTW, not sure why we are talking about sports or venues that don't require focused heeling. This is the biggest problem with this site. A huge pissing contest over what is better. They all include spending vast amounts of time with our dogs. How can any of them be wrong? I'm an IPO guy, and think it is a useless thing to train, but it's required, so ok.
The OP asked a question and I think it should be courteous to answer what they want or start another thread disputing these things.
The OP asked a question and I think it should be courteous to answer what they want or start another thread disputing these things.
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