Is titling / breed surveying a GSD really useless? - Page 13

the main difference is the pedigree system, where in most countries pedigrees are given out by kennelclub, the german pedigrees go trough the breed clubs, so the GSD club wont give any pedigrees to breeders that dont follow their rules,

result is that many people make their dog scratch the bare minimum to pass or even less to allow them to breed their dogs

therefor every dog on every GSD pedigree is titled, is that proof of quality, IMO not, it is proof these people did every thing the SV required to get pedigrees on their pups

if you look on  some of the fail videos from IPO3 dogs on the hauptzuchtschau you might think again about value of titles in this system

all great dogs are titled, but not all titled dogs are great

countries like belgium and holland  dont have these requirements

I think its irresponsible for people that claim to be there for the breed and that make money from it get on a public platform and poo poo titles like the are not only unnecessary but bad.

Bärenfang: "The point is that the genepool is small. There are only so many dogs in one region and you either have to buy frozen from the other side of the country or import. There are only so many trials in your region and even for those you travel three plus hours."

That´s not true,

- the genepool is far away from "small", but the most so called GSDs bred in your country of choice don´t fit your needs.
- there are that few trials because people don´t train. In case they would train, there would be trials. Simply maths

At some point you have to decide if you want to blame the States in case of lack of tracking fields, or if you want to blame the States in case of too much country.

Joanro, we too are "allowed" to buy and own 'BIGBONE', 'RARE', 'GIANT', 'OLDTYMEY', or whatever" dogs- no problem at all, and no insurance company will deny to cover a "bite trained" dog, no problem at all. We are allowed to go to restaurants with our dogs, visit any stores ( besides stores selling food ), we are allowed to use a train, no problem at all. We don´t need to call our dogs SDs, they are part of our life.
We are even allowed to use prongs, but we are not allowed to abuse our dogs. We are not allowed to use e-collars any more because too many stupid people abused their dogs ( hunters and police are still allowed to use them ), and that´s a shame. I guess the average bite trained GSD does have more freedom than the average ( not even bite trained ) ASD.

I don´t want anybody to go "gaga over IPO", I only want people to understand the difference between "working dog breeds" and "pet dog breeds" - and the only way to understand this difference is to get involved, be it IPO ( the most international and worlwide most acceppted sport ), KNPV, AWDF, Ringsport, WHATEVER. The name is not important, it´s only important to get involved and train.

But very responsible for duke to test and breed the dogs he does for the work they perform for many countries. The gsd is a working breed, not a scorebook/trophy breed. Duke produces working dogs. No titles needed.

Joanro, Duke is only able to "test" those dogs because he trained a lot of dogs ( no matter in which venue, but in his case including IPO ).

Gustav, you prooved my point - get involved, and learn how to decide by yourself instead of believing in "fancy titles" or "fancy video clips" only. The bigger the knowledge, the smaller the chance to get screwed.

Training a lot of dogs is not equal to titling a lot of dogs, Susie. One would expect a person to have experience trading 'a lot of dogs' before they would be qualified to 'test' dogs for police and military service.
The more variety of training venues experience, the better. Point is, the dogs are trained for work, not spending valuable time 'titling'.
I dont see anyone advocating abolishment of bite sports.

Joanro, I wouldn´t even mind if people "only" trained their dogs without any titling, it´s about experience followed by knowledge, nothing else. The "titles" normally follow, but are not necessary.

The average citizen of your country doesn´t train/test his/her dogs, but proudly breeds them.
That´s a fact, and as long as this doesn´t change, the few people who really do care about working ability in a working dog breed are not able to change the breed in your country.
All of you only think about your own dogs, but you have to think about the thousands of GSDs/ASLs born every year in your country. All of them are registered as the same...and the average buyer will believe they are the same, titled or not titled, good or bad - all of them will get the same peds.

Without a titling structure people would be running blind on even where to look for dogs to test.

Titles supply the baseline of information so the rest can cherry pick.

Think for a minute where the breed would be if all titles stopped. The internet would break from all the people trying to bullshit their way into relevance with 30 second video clips made in their back yard.

There's a reason basically every breeder on this forum has imported stock they're breeding and even when they've been breeding for a decade are still purchasing dogs from Europe instead of being able to continue their own line with influence from various outside stud dogs. Funny how even those people are arguing against what training/titling does for the breed.

Susie, once more...per duke's dogs 'Point is, the dogs are trained for work, not spending valuable time 'titling'.
'I dont see anyone advocating abolishment of bite sports.' Speaking for myself, anyway.