WGWL - Page 21

@ susie this is the statement he responded to

your totally right. We have to make the sport more for the real work. That the police or army can and will use the ipo dogs.

But Gustav, if you have the right balance of drives for a LE dog, he can work in sport as well,
For PP I would take a slightly different balance of drives

Gustav has made comment that is so ignored by breeders and people searching for PPD types. Below is a very good example of a dog with FIGHT drive...an intruder was (unknown to home owner) behind the home owner when, after arriving home, he went to the door to let his three yr old female out to relieve herself...she came out the door and, to owner's suprise, launched through the air past her owner..... to nail the intruder in the stomach.

A big fight between them ensued as the intruder was punching the dog and trying to mash her against the yard fence, all the while she maintained her grip. The owner joined in to help his dog by punching the intruder in the face. The dog ended up hanging on to the armpit of the intruder when the owner choked her off and the intruder ran away.

This female may have saved her owner's life. Fight drive kept her in the fight.

( none of the blood is from the dog, she was not injured)

After the big fight with the intruder....https://www.dropbox.com/s/3skhbud53c1rk1m/IMG_6376-600x800.JPG?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3g5ljg8fagj4bs/IMG_6386-600x800.JPG?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8cdqhqmob0z2bq3/IMG_6380-600x800.JPG?dl=0

Duke, at least the first interview is from 2014, not that long ago.

Are you able to link the whole "current" interview?

Once again: " The GOOD dog, that we should/have to use in our breeding, has good fight drive, search abilities, cooperative abilities and is environmentally strong. "

He realized lack of "cooperative abilities" in several service dogs, and he realized lack of "environmental strength" in several sport dogs, and he clearly tries to get the "whole package" when breeding, not "either - or".

A genetically good dog will be able to do both, and like Gustav I think that should always be the goal.

its older, its posted on that website in 2014 it is not interview, it is discussion on facebook about stickhits posted by pierre wahlstrom, funny however that people who dont agree can always google a satisfying comment somewhere in same discussion are more interesting quotes from people who work in LE

dogs like me and top sport people one german policedog trainer openly states that german police cant buy good dogs(GSD) because they wont pay market value for good dogs

 

and also this is interesting quote;; Installing a real breed survey will never work with the actual members of SV

But must say that I am fine with and understand that show people will breed the most suitable dog for their purpose, so will sportpeople, and same goes for LE dogs

IMO…LE work has gotten more advanced and needs dogs that perform much more difficult duties than ever before. The majority of their work is drug detection and then it’s always nice to have an apprehension dog when needed. Schutzhund has turned into a sport and a hobby with certain aspects to help breeders find breeding stock as well. The sport just can't be expected to be a base level test for many of the advanced things that LE needs today. I believe that a lot of the information needed is provided by IPO but yes, things like environmental nerve aren’t greatly tested. That’s when it comes down to the breeder to decide what they want and how they use the information they’re given. This is where human nature gets in the way and we breed what we want no matter what the “objective” opinion is. Then on top of that there is the knowledge gap that exists: one person can call something defense or balanced and yet another can look at it and say the dog is still in prey…and we can do this with almost anything we see out of dogs. Dog didn’t out because it’s so badass and wants to fight, another person sees a nerved out dog which won’t let go because it’s worried about the re-attack. A dog munches on a sleeve because it’s just a dog that fights that way, another person thinks it’s nervy and getting ready to run. Can’t tell you how many of the older dogs I’ve watched who people claim are strong and powerful and yet they’re looking around in the blind and off of every out, never really focused on the helper during guarding…yet people called them strong (maybe they were strong for those times) and today they’d be considered nerved out and just waiting for a chance to leave.

Every sport can only do so much…none can encompass exactly what “real dogs” do on a daily basis. Real dogs work every day, 8+ hours a day, and during training are trained much more rigorously. Sport dogs, 99% of the time are trained one day a week and maybe a few minutes here and there during the week. No matter what anyone tells me…the highest level sport dogs are the hardest dogs to find. People go through dog after dog after dog to find the one with the right drive and nerve strength to handle highest level competition. Many of those dogs would easily be club level dogs or even police dogs because the expectations are simply different. There are very very very few of the highest level dogs. The majority of IPO dogs are family pets that have a hobby, with people that don’t care about breeding them and never will. I think it might be different for those in Europe, but in the United States, sport has not and will never be the reason the GSD is not what it used to be. That lies squarely on the shoulders of the pet market and breeders who have shifted their goals in order to provide that market with dogs. The easy money is there and that’s where many people have chosen to lay their stake.

Now I am out of it - I didn´t "google a satisfying comment" - that´s what I found, and I ASKED YOU about different sources...

Duke: "...one german policedog trainer openly states that german police cant buy good dogs(GSD) because they wont pay market value for good dogs..."

That´s the problem of German police for a lot of years ...

BW again your information is not correct, since few years and events like boston marathon many policedogs today are not trained on drugs but on explosive detection as that has a bigger priority nowadays

also a dog with bad guarding or looking around can be a strong dog but balance of drives is wrong or trainingmistakes are made(correction from behind), but in fact that is an indicator that sport is sport, where barking in blind is for a ball, guarding is a sit exercise and transport a heeling exercise (dont say this goes for all dogs/trainers) but if you want points you get the dog hat can get points

big influence is a german malinois toptrainer who is pushing for this agenda were he says that the defence part in IPO should be about obedience only, and NO natural drives of the dog should kick in, see taking out the throwing of dumbell and the discussion few years ago about calling out the blind, where the traditional people wanted the dog to shift drives, and the Malinois people wanted it as a clean obedience exercise , so not bark at helper but neutral bark on command

but again im fine with selecting the best dog for sport/points, but than recognize that its not the best dog for LE anymore

BTW, the above dog pictured who saved her owner, is neither sport bred, nor show bred. But she was bred for solid nerves, fight drive, sound temperament and biddability...she has it all. Also, she is certified drug detection, her hunt drive and tracking are excellent.