When Line Breeding Where Do you Cross The Line: - Page 6

Kiwi: " Not many people will believe that it is statistically possible to mate together Bob and Bette (the children of Don and Mary) and get one male who has inherited NOT ONE gene from Mary, and one female who has inherited NOT ONE gene from Don. It IS possible (although it is not possible for the male to have ONLY genes from Mary and the fremale to have ONLY genes from Don)..."

 

		Grandsire Don
	Sire Bob ( 50% Don / 50% Mary )
Puppies ( 50% Bob / 50% Bette )
	Dam Bette ( 50% Don / 50% Mary )
		Granddam Mary

 

I may be stupid, but the puppies ( male or female doesn´t matter ) will inherit 50% from Bob, and 50% from Bette.

Both dam and sire ( Bob and Bette ) give 50% to the puppies, but nobody knows if it will be 25% Don / 25% Bette, or if it will be 50% Don / 0% Bette.

That said, you are right, in case both parents only inherit the Don genetics to the next generation ( puppy ), there will be no more Mary ( more than unlikely, but possible ).

But as soon as no "Mary" genes are given to the puppy, there remains Don only
(and in case no "Don" genes = Mary only ).

Now you say " ...it is not possible for the male to have ONLY genes from Mary and the fremale to have ONLY genes from Don...".

In case "male" = male puppy / "f(r)emale" = female puppy ( out of Bob and Bette ) you are wrong -

In case "male" = Bob             / "f(r)emale" = Bette              ( out of Don and Mary )  you are right.

Susie, if a male puppy gets only genes from his grandmother, will he still be a "male"?

You are right, Swarn, it´s ridiculous, but I am very interested in genetics - always trying to learn...

It's all right Susie, even Nate Silver can read too much into mathematics & probability, forgetting the basics.

But what´s the basics?

For me it´s 50% sire / 50% dam, not more, not less.
Everything else is guessing around, but the more similar the ancestors, the better the tendency.
Former ancestors are able to show a tendency, but not necessarily the later truth.

Personally I like to know as many ancestors as possible, so I know a trait I like will most likely be in the pups because SEVERAL of the ancestors already showed this trait ( be it a certain temperament, or be it health wise ).

That said I believe when breeding dogs in parents who show in the best case as many similar traits as possible -
it is maths and probability, but the more similar traits, the higher the probability.

That said breeders should ALWAYS use the BEST dogs they can get, the good traits of sire and dam as similar as possible -
doesn´t need to be a linebreeding at all - in case both sire and dam are known to carry great temperament in their lines it doesn´t matter which genes will survive.

Does this make sense?

"I am very interested in genetics - always trying to learn..."

The geneticists also, problem is, they ALSO don't know enough, yet...

"But what´s the basics?"

That a male puppy cannot get 100% genes from his grandmother.

"it is maths and probability, but the more similar traits, the higher the probability."

Yes, and Trump is the next President of the USA.

"Does this make sense?"

Yes Susie, everything you wrote, so did what the Kiwi write, except "fremale", and also EVEN what Duke wrote.

What wouldn't make sense is when you will (soon) start contradicting each other.

"But what´s the basics?"

That a male puppy cannot get 100% genes from his grandmother.

No, it is possible - look at the chart again -

Bette got 50% from Mary (grandmother)
Bob got 50% from Mary, too

When you breed Bette to Bob it could (!) happen a puppy inherits only Mary genes ( 50% sire / 50% dam) -
it´s more than unlikely, but it is theoretically possible.

And, no, I am not going to argue, I am trying to understand...

Nate silver is not a statistician, mathematician, scientist or anything that really qualifies him for his job.

Question, what's more important breeding a great dog or a uniform litter or assembling a genetic base to get an average increase in quality going forward?

Susie, no it's impossible!! I haven't read anything about dogs yet, but for humans, males have Y chromosome, which has ONLY 78 genes, BUT, out of which only 24 are common with females. So, at least 54 genes cannot be found in BOTH males & females.

See, a grandmother is FEMALE, and a grandson is MALE. So, a grandson CANNOT get 100% genes from his grandmother.

So, let's not forget the BASICS while studying charts.

"Nate silver is not a statistician, mathematician, scientist or anything that really qualifies him for his job."

Still, he's overall MORE successful in predicting outcomes than MOST of the REPUTABLE breeders worldwide.

"Question, what's more important breeding a great dog or a uniform litter or assembling a genetic base to get an average increase in quality going forward?"

IDK... all of them??