Letter from Dr. Heinrich of the WUSV - Page 13

Pedigree Database

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Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 31 August 2016 - 11:08

Yes I think that would be fair; would love to see what Bav has to offer, over and above a somewhat snotty attitude.

Les The Kiwi Pauling

by Les The Kiwi Pauling on 31 August 2016 - 12:08

[Swarnendu] 30.8.2016 - 20:08

"Bavarian Wagon- "Les breeding all arounders? I would love to know the last dog he bred that was titled" "
She is welcome to be told
(AFTER she satisfies my previously-expressed curiosity) - but I will be using the ENGLISH meaning of words, not the DogSport-lish deviation from the word's true derivation:  
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=title
I shall ignore that, since the Weimar Republic, all titlesin Germany are considered part of one's last name (sorry about that, [susie] - I'm not a Berliner). Thus, a real title holder can "adopt" an adult, and the otherwise unrelated person then can become "Joe Schmuck Duke of Saxony" " as in   http://www.heraldica.org/topics/odegard/titlefaq.htm
Hey - I might even tease by borrowing the Yanklish misuse of the verb "to breed"!


"Cutaway- "So aaykay, show me what you have done" "
Sounds like an invitation to a "Mine is bigger than yours" bragging competition. I wonder whether [Cutaway] will discover that [aaykay]'s alias indicates that he has an AK47 and plenty of ammunition?


"Susie - "No popcorn necessary, Cutaway is spot on..." "
Never mind - I was never particularly fond of popcorn.


"I think all of the above have agreed that one SHOULD show some proofs of their achievements to backup their claims of knowledge."
Actually, many have been worded as invitations to compete for that "Mine is bigger/faster/prettier-whatever" competition. Being a competitor wasn't my scene - LEARNING was and is. Once my Jena had proved that she had learned a task, I was happy - I couldn't care less whether someone else's pooch could do it faster, higher, whatever. I'd rather she & I learned something new than have to repeat the activity until some judge deemed the performance "Best On The Day" or even "100%".


"Les has named some of his dogs. In fact Bav has herself provided a link which mentions the name of the kennel owned by someone called Les Pauling."
Has she? I've not noticed it. Which web-address and what time-stamp?


"So, one can easily go to his website and see what specimens of GSDs he has produced so far"
Only up to a point. There are many GSDs for which I have not found a photo. Some of those I've included were taken with Polaroid, and had degenerated by the time I'd bought a computer and a scanner. And after I no longer had Jeannie I didn't have a handler to position the pooches - judges want to see an alert
(no doubt alert because it is anxious) pooch, whereas my dogs happily relax with me - Jeannie was the one with the anxiety to make dogs feel the need to be alert.

And I cannot simultaneously handle & photograph. My fellow breeder (whose eyes can cope with these digital cameras that have only an external screen on the back that - to me - becomes just a matt grey when the sun is behind the camera) sold their Wellington property a few months ago and moved off to Whanganui - 360km there & back. Fortunately the road doesn't enter the mountains.

"Isn't it fair that now Bav also shows some of her dogs? Or, was that applicable for aaykay only, because (s)he DARED to support Les?"
So far as I know, she has not yet
(dared? deigned?) to respond to my request that she links us to a GSD in the pdb who fits her ideal. And to state whether it is one that her kennel produced.



[Hundmutter] 31.8.2016 - 11:08

"Yes I think that would be fair; would love to see what Bav has to offer, over and above a somewhat snotty attitude."
What? You, on the other side of the Atlantic, can see the condition of her schnozz? She must have been intensely inbred on Jimmy Durante!

 

And now to try to get some sleep before I am picked up 5 hours earlier than I usually strap my leg on, And then it's off to the eye specialist, followed by an inspection by the prosthetic limb specialist.


by Bavarian Wagon on 31 August 2016 - 13:08

I don’t actually need much proof or back up…I said that about Les because I know that none of the dogs have been titled. Anyone can see the dogs he’s registered on PDB and check their “qualifications” and pedigrees. It’s a mix of English WGSL imports, American WGSL outcasts, and even ASL thrown in at times. NONE of those dogs are getting titled.

My only point to Les about titling had to do with using “breed survey” as an achievement when all it is, is a glorified temperament test. No titling requirement, no protection portion during the survey, nothing! Les wanted to point out how his dogs were getting V1s and V2s…getting KKL1 or whatever the equivalent is in NZ…but it’s not equal to a German or American V or KKL. None of it matters, the dogs don’t work, the breeders in NZ just use generally accepted language to make it seem like they’re doing more than they really are.

I’m using already offered information in order to prove a point about people’s knowledge and experience. I’m not digging for more, I don’t even care much if people don’t want to provide more information. I think anonymity and not judging what people say based on their experience and accomplishments is a good thing on forums. Way too often are people dismissed for lack of achievements and experience. And no…I’m not dismissing Les, I’m just trying to show the rest of the forum how little of what he believes gives him some standing actually means. Many times in the dog world all people look at is how many years someone has done something…but in this case…you can’t consider decades of experience in GSDs in New Zealand close to a few years of training/titling dogs in the more “relevant” countries. If Les bred what he did in Germany or the United States…there would be one three letter abbreviation used for it…

But yes...if one of these idiots decides to start writing about how they know more than anyone else and look at all their FAKE accomplishments, I'll be first in line to point them out.


by Swarnendu on 31 August 2016 - 15:08

Bavarian Wagon, you keep on INSISTING that just because Les lives in New Zealand, he knows NOTHING relevant about GSDs. So, just because YOU live in the USA, you know EVERYTHING about the breed? Hillary Clinton & Donald Trump know more about GSDs than I do, only because they are Americans?

Les has already proved (and, YOU helped) that he is MORE than just an internet warrior (YOUR accusation) when we are talking about GSDs.

Just like what you did to Les, now, I accuse you of being only an internet warrior, nothing else. You have NO practical experience about GSDs. You have NEVER "titled" your dogs. Maybe you have NEVER owned a GSD. You just come here to vomit your undigested informations accumulated from various websites, about how GREAT Dogsport is, and how BAD EVERYTHING else are.

PROVE that I am wrong. Show us some of your achievements!

But, I don't expect you to do that. You have nothing to backup your big mouth.

I KNOW I am right.

by Bavarian Wagon on 31 August 2016 - 15:08

I have a V rated IPO3 KKL bitch. I also have a male who is IPO3x2 and FH.

Haven't been doing it long enough to have more but have a young male I'm getting ready to trial with and also puppies out of the bitch. Three of the dogs I work regularly are showing at a national level in the United States.

Is that enough for you? That's the type of "proof" Les provided...a few typed out words that would be almost impossible to prove outside of what he's written and what we can see with the dogs he's added to PDB.

That's why I don't care about proof...it's easily manufactured and you can easily just say something and everyone believes it to be true...it's what Les did with his breed survey comments. He makes them, you fall for them, then you question others because you want to defend your buddy.

I like your and Les's methods of bringing in completely irrelevant things in order to try to prove a point though. You talk about Trump and Clinton for some reason, he throws out his English and Math degrees. What does any of that have to do with GSD? If you don't want to accept that people involved in GSDs in the United States, Germany, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and some of the other "major" countries know more about the breed than those living in the cut off, highly limited countries, that's your prerogative...but it's just the truth, hard to remain relevant when you've got extremely limited resources around you.

by Swarnendu on 31 August 2016 - 16:08

Again, Bavarian Wagon, which dogs? Are they listed here in PDB? Where are the links? Les wasn't afraid of providing some. He wasn't afraid to provide a link to HIS kennel in another thread you frequented only with the sole intention of bashing him. He is CONFIDENT of the worthiness whatever crap(YOUR claim) he produced.

How would WE know what your dogs' worth are if you don't dare to SHOW us? What is your source of knowledge? Did you train/handle your dogs yourself, or hired a trainer/handler? What is the proof?

How would we know that you aren't JUST an envious neighbour hiding in front of a computer in New Zealand?

Please understand! I am just trying show you the WORTH your recent CONTRIBUTIONS in a couple of PDB threads, where you (and some others, but with much more civil attitude) only SHOW your DISLIKE towards a certain person in New Zealand. You are not interested in WHAT is being written, only WHO is writing.

Go, see the mirror.


by Bavarian Wagon on 31 August 2016 - 16:08

He never provided a link to any kennel...I'm not sure what you're looking at. It's sad that you so blindly follow and defend people on the internet that you're willing to make things up for them. Looks bad on you...I'd avoid it. He provided links to PDB entries. Entries that are easily found by clicking his name and going into the dogs he’s entered in the database. As a user of this database you should know by now that anyone can add anything and post any title/rating they want by their dog. None of it is verified unless someone complains and has proof that it’s false. The majority of his pedigrees are missing a lot of information, some don’t even have sire/dam information. These are facts…not something I’m making up because I’m so hell bent on attacking someone. It would probably help make your point more if you were a little more objective and used truth and fact to back up your claims, not just mouth vomit which is extremely easy to disprove.

 

What is being written is that because of his advanced degree and his family history he knows more than anyone about GSDs. It's a joke. The truth is, his exeprience is EXTREMELY limitted, and you just chose to ignore it because he takes the time to sentence by sentence rip apart posts, use things that have nothing to do with GSD to try to show how people aren't right, and the confusion that stems from the way he decides to comment (usually after the thread has gone a different direction).

 

Take a look at what I wrote...in less than a decade in the sport, I've got more titled dogs, more REAL breed surveyed dogs, and more dogs bred following the SV system than he does in 5+ decades. Sad...just go look in the mirror...you're the reason why breeding in other countries will never have any minimum standard, you and people like you...who defend those who take short cuts and throw age/experience as an excuse for not having to do what the founder set forth. Want to know why no one takes a single look at a dog from eastern Asia/Australia/New Zealand when they're looking to import a working dog or even a show dog for new breeding stock into their kennel? You don't have to look very far.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 31 August 2016 - 17:08

Hhmmm ... I am tending to 'side with' Les and Swarnendu, but I have not been introducing additional extras (like my feelings about Trump - although you can certainly find those in the OT threds !), [although I'd own the occasional sarcastic quip based in what those others HAVE added to these discussions] . I have just talked about the Clubs, the rules, the Standard, the practices, the failures, oh, and the sheer arrogance of the American views and system.
And yet, despite my chiding you about it, you continue to rubbish just about any and all experience & knowledge of the GSD Breed that differs from yours. Including my own ? I have openly stated on PDB several times before - although I do not see the point in mentioning it in every single thred - that my experiences of the breed, although extensive, have not followed the 'usual' path; that circumstances have led to my not having trained/competed in IPO or 'similar'; nor in me keeping my own kennel and becoming a breeder. Actually the latter just as much a decision, as the result of lack of opportunity. But: that these factors (coupled with the actual experiences of caring for many dogs, across the whole spectrum of GSDs) have at least given me the opportunity to discuss a wide variety of views, methods and interests within the hobby and its professional sideshoots with an equally wide variety of people. Because I have no reputation to defend and am not therefore a threat to anybody's interests, it is amazing how much information can be gleaned from others. It is also what gives me the chance to be objective about what I see and hear.

by Swarnendu on 31 August 2016 - 17:08

"He never provided a link to any kennel..." - see, I WAS right. You don't bother to check What is being written, just WHO is writing.

Go and check the other thread where you STARTED and CONTINUED your mission of Les-Bashing.

This time, READ! And, don't just continue your "stay in New Zealand" nonsense! Provide something worth reading, and learning from that, the quality you have forgotten to produce due to your current mission.

See, I don't have problem showing respect to your previous more constructive contributions? Because I came here to LEARN, not to see humans behaving like a pack of wolves hell-bent to belittle a person they dislike!

And another thing, before starting to find faults in dogs someone is proud of, don't forget to SHOW your prized furry friends.

by Bavarian Wagon on 31 August 2016 - 18:08

I did re-read everything...not a single link. If there is one, my apologies, please copy and paste it, feel free to PM me, but I've read all his posts and the only links are PDB pages. I also googled his name, his kennel name, and nothing comes up. Again, please feel free to prove me wrong and post the link to his kennel page.

I doubt there is one though...if there was, it would've been easier for you to post it already rather than write up another attack at me. Leave the defensiveness at the door.





 


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