Anyone have a son or daughter of Ballack von der Brucknerallee? - Page 3

Yes, I do! I have Zeus vom Hauswalder Bach, who is the son of Ballack. He is a beautiful Black and Red male with dark eyes and an amazing mahogany coat. You can see his puppies and some photos at my website, http://www.vjgermanshepherds.com. Take Care! Carl Hollister

www.fleischerheim.com has.

Susie - The breed in the UK is divided with one side still using the older English bloodlines and, this side was founded on the bloodlines of the dogs that I have listed. This side does not use German bloodlines to any great extent. The other side known as the German side is now predominately based on all German lines with no attachment whatsoever to the other following. Also, there are very few bloodlines in Germany that would carry any English bloodline carrying the dogs that I have mentioned. It would seem that the disease originated from German imports many years ago and, as we have seen, it continued into the 90’s at least from those lines. A period of approximately thirty years. This emphasises the point that I have been making all along which is nobody can say with any accuracy how long the disease will be bred forwards.

There was a scare approximately three (?) years ago where two German imports were mated and produced epilepsy. I cannot now remember the names of the dogs but there was a female in the lines that was a litter sister to a female in my own female’s bloodline. I do not know the outcome of the research into this matter due to the Data Protection Act protecting the information.

As I have not been active in the breed now for many years, although I continue to follow the breed, I do not have too much access as to the current history of events today. Historically, Germany has not been forthcoming with information regarding dogs carrying health problems until it reaches a point where it cannot be denied. I was caught in this situation once where a dogs transmission of heart problems did not come out until he was sold to Taiwan. Too late for me (the three dogs all died from the disease) and, other unsuspecting users of the male.

Mackenzie

Susie, not personally knowing / seeing a fitting dog is no guarantee that they aren't there in your country somewhere. I can't remember how long it is since I actually (knowingly) saw a dog with epilepsy myself, but I hear about them often enough to be aware that it IS an ongoing problem.
The thing about epilepsy is that it has always had an irrational fear attached to it - maybe because it is so distressing, in dogs and humans, and perhaps for more superstitious reasons - and it is therefore one of those illnesses that people definitely 'brush under the carpet' and keep very quiet about. In GSDs it is, as Mack says, reckoned that it was probably there from the very early years in the development of the breed, and thus reached the UK through early ancestral German dogs.The bad management I described ^^^, due to the love of the pet buying public for 'novelty' specimens, and a lack of SV-style regulation, caused it to become deeply entrenched in some British bloodlines. Unfortunately it had also crept into some quite good dogs of the 60s and thus into the Amulree lines and some others of decent breeding too. Careful modern breeders have deliberately worked to exclude it again from their lines, but as you know the UK Kennel Club is like the AKC and has presided over something of a 'free-for-all' in breeding practices. That the situation in Germany is better isn't doubted...but it is not something for anyone to be complacent about. If the gene-mix comes together again, it WILL be there.

For sure there are epileptic dogs in my country, no doubt.
I guess it´s almost impossible to eliminate an existing disease totally out of a genepool.

What I wanted to say - I don´t think epilepsy really is a "major problem" at this point. In the local clubs you hear about sick dogs, but I didn´t hear about epileptic dogs for several years.

Susie - I think that epilepsy is still in Germany but not necessarily at a high level at this time and, therefore, does not appear to be a major problem. The major problems come once a dog has reached the top level and, in the case of males, widely used. If the epilepsy does not appear in the first four or five years and, as in the case of male, the dog may have been widely used producing several more sources available to spread the disease. Suddenly there is a major problem. This is not a disease to be ignored.

In the case of the history behind Figo and Ballack there a number of dogs who were active at more or less the same time. Their offspring were also being inbred on each others families particularly when the inbreed was 2-2, 2-3 and so on. I believe that it is everyone’s interest to have this information because as we have seen with these dogs the problem emanated from the 1940’s/1950’s and, is still being produced in White dogs today in the UK. There have been many epileptics in the white dogs and it has usually been the pet people who have paid the Bill.

By revealing the information I think it is in everyone’s interest to know so that they can at least make their own risk assessment and be cautious. Forewarned is forearmed.

Mackenzie

" If the epilepsy does not appear in the first four or five years and, as in the case of male, the dog may have been widely used producing several more sources available to spread the disease. Suddenly there is a major problem. This is not a disease to be ignored. "

Sadly this is not only true for epilepsy but for a lot of other hereditary diseases, too.
Do you remember the hemophiliac case some decades ago?

We can´t test for everything - for a lot of diseases there are not even reliable tests yet -
so we can only hope for the integrity and knowledge of breeders ( as soon as they recognize a problem weed out the dog of the genepool ).

I can remember the Haemophilia problem that came through Canto v d Wienerau (a cornerstone of the breed in his time) who died at four years of age.

Susie is absolutely right when saying “ We can´t test for everything - for a lot of diseases there are not even reliable tests yet -
so we can only hope for the integrity and knowledge of breeders (as soon as they recognize a problem weed out the dog of the genepool )”

The breed depends on the knowledge and integrity of the breeders, unfortunately, knowledge of how the breeding families come together seems to be waning. The culture now is just follow the winners. The very idea of breeding pedigree animals, whatever the species, is to provide information leading to what may be produced from the bloodlines. Anyone can read and memorise the animals in a pedigree but that is not sufficient knowledge in itself if the transmission of the proposed mating is not understood. It seems to me that it is no wonder that we are testing more and more after the event when we should be able to forecast some of the undesirable traits and diseases before it becomes too difficult to breed out. Nobody sets out to produce epilepsy, haemophilia or any other serious disease, however, until the problem of secrecy is overcome and knowledge increased, unsuspecting breeders will continue to have to deal more and more with the undesirables due mainly to the close inbreeding that has taken place.

The information that I have brought out in this thread is not a witch hunt against Ballack and Figo, or indeed, their breeders but is given for the protection of the breed as a whole and, it is time that people understand the importance of that.

Mackenzie

From reading fleischerheim's website, Ballack was sold to China? Does anyone know what kennel has him now?

Mackenzie