training a badass dog - Page 2

agree in some points , I think it is not ideal balanced dog, to what I like ideally, but it is dog with many good qualities so I think he is extremely well suited for breeding, as well as many other things, but not for every handler
you ask why previous owner let him go out of control, well she is 72 year old breeder /trainer that bred and trained many dogs in her life but this one was too much for her, she tried and it would be better for me to get such dog at age of 8 months or so to set him straight

I am firm believer of training/teaching dogs in LOW drive, therefore training command OUT on a ball is something I do with many dogs, so when I transfer it to sleeve, the dog knows command, knows what is expected from him, so all I need to do is make him do it, instead of make him understand and do it

Ecollar is an option but im no trainer that jumps to Ecollar quickly

I have and had multiple dogs that are very aware of what is going on around them, that is very different than insecure, nervy dog with environmental problems

trying to upload his picture but wont go 

Duke can you post the ped?

Susie ..
Not always so , many people don't understand , unfortunately ! I have been training in several countries in Europe as well as USA and I can say as the truth , their are very very good excellent trainers in all countries and some of the worst in all countries . If someone thinks a 18 month male , high in aggression , high in hardness , high in motivation ,low in social quotient , that is not under control is a good dog. Ok What is that to me? I wrote IMOp. People want to think otherwise , that is ok by me .. people can and will decide for themselves.

A dog looking at a person ... beg to differ politely . A dog looking at a person is "looking AT that person'. The dog is checking out that person with sight , hearing and scent. The dog has already been in it's surroundings and that checking of it's environment was done by the dog way prior to any person approaching . If you don't recognize this then you have no clue about canines let alone the GS.

In general yes what you write about socialization -- all dogs need to be socialized, at least to some degree . . However you can't bring the general to this specific. IF* , IF* this dog was not socialized and is now 18 months , that is a totally , 100% totally different situation ,than a puppy non social by nature needing to be socialized- totally different and not pertinent to this dog on the thread. .

I agree with training comment , because simply ALL dogs need to be taught !! So , I leave this comment simplistic . A dog that cannot be controlled or that cannot control itself is a present and future danger. Everyone is entitled to think what they want, like what they want , and to have what they want. I respect and don't debate what you should like- that is your business and not mine .

Unfortunately a dog that IS NOT CONTROLLED, I darn well advise to stay away from . And I have professionally trained enough sport and real to life protection professional canines in my life to know what to stay away from for the record . Any one , any every day person , with common sense observing an uncontrolled dog , and a little fifi dog at that, recognizes that it may be better stay away from that dog for goodness sake. So thanks for the reminder not to be stupid.

Besides the issue and concept : i have heard the people understand 'clear headed' , so I am waiting for the exact , precise definition to what a clear headed dog is .

For the record , a good dog to me : is sound temperament and discerning canine ready , willing and able to follow the direction of it's handler in a controlled manner without being a danger to any one else in doing so under normal daily circumstances.

Interesting. on this PDB i continual;ly see arrogant people , many knowing nothing about training and the GS in completeness that post the post nastiest comments. I never have assaulted anybody personally , only discussed concepts and issues. You don't have to like my posts , agree to them .. but you need not be arrogant.

"Interesting. on this PDB i continual;ly see arrogant people , many knowing nothing about training and the GS in completeness that post the post nastiest comments. I never have assaulted anybody personally , only discussed concepts and issues. You don't have to like my posts , agree to them .. but you need not be arrogant."

I didn´t want to be arrogant at all, I just do have another opinion. Is that "arrogant" ?

For me it´s about the dog. I like dominant, hard dogs - it´s not the dog´s problem it wasn´t raised according to its temperament and drives - different owner/different outcome.

This dog didn´t become a "bad" dog, though, only a undisciplined one - it´s the human`s fault, not the dog´s.

Susie ., yes ...you are absolutely correct that the previous owners added to what this dog is or isn't today ! No debate there - good point :-). Although I add , reiterate previous concept, that we have to know the dog . In that respect , I am accessing ' to what degree the genetics of the dog ' plays a role in relation to what it is today ?

And to add to your point , in general , I have seen way to much in current day GS breeding , poor , very very poor , breeding !! I can't state enough from at least MY experience, I re state from my circles and experience , the disregard to what the breeders are actually breeding . In Europe as well as USA ! The lack of thought and planning way ahead for what is being bred is prevalent. And the biggest of all the problems is OVER AGGRESSION as a behavioral trait. The inability of breeders to admit this or recognize this in their PROGRAM , if they have one , is rampant & sad.

Susie , i give to you credit for recognizing WE are responsible for the dog's lot even in this respect too. BTW , yes I too like , like yourself , like very much so hard , dominant dogs , but , with the right genetic base. Translated : there is a qualitative and quantitative aspect to behaviors and behavioral traits and this expression is determined and controlled by the chromosomes / genetics. That is the key to this dog, repeated ad nauseum , understanding the dog . In order to interact and help this dog this understanding is paramount . Not trianing by methods , or techniques. Not to mention , behaviors in canines are never unlearned,new behaviors can be learned , so - with the genetic make up of this dog and what it has in the past learned, what is the chance for successful improvement at 18 months old ? Duke in his honesty , even recognizes , he cannot predict how much control he will have on this dog.

From what I saw...I like this dog...But I think the first step...particularly with this type of dog but to me with every dog...That is to Bond with him and to get him to trust and believe in you...Believe that you are the master and he does what you want him to do...The problem with a very dominant dog is to balance things out so that there's no confusion and no mis-trust...
I personally work out a lot using Obedience...I do some tug work along with a toy...An "Out" is not as confusing coming from someone he trusts as to do it on a sleeve with someone who is his "fighting partner"...
Sometimes it's hard to know what is "mis-trust" or "nerves"...Only time and effort will tell the trust...
To me this is a very interesting dog and one that I would like to work with...I find the dogs that are that hard to figure out and a bit difficult....to be the most fun to work with...

~Bob~

I don't see a big problem- there may be one, but it isn't apparent from this clip. Looks like an undisciplined youngster, out of control from lack of proper handling and outright boredom. A lot of people would agree that he is "a bit much" but I like those dogs. So long as they're "clear in the head" LOL, they are fine in the hands of a competent handler. I don't find "clear in the head" that hard to understand. I also don't see too much aggression as a big problem in the breed. I see a lot more overly soft, non-aggressive dogs with crazy high prey drive than I do truly aggressive dogs. Give me a truly aggressive but "clear' dog any day over the former. :)

Best wishes, Duke. If he turns out not to be your cup of tea, he will surely be useful somewhere with the proper foundation...however late.

thanks , and I fully agree that I also see much more overly soft-non agressive dogs , than I see overly agressive dogs,dont see that in the breed and constantly see sport breeder trying to breed UP in power and hardnes/agression, but not wanting too much of it

given the fact that centaurion is stating that I clearly think he is definately looking to the breed from a different angle than I am, and that is fine, each to his own,

time will tell what he will become, mean time did medical and he is hips, elbows and DM clear so that is important as well

I don't see much not to like about this dog. Green yes, but about where he should be for his age. Confident, but not all that bad ass - once the sleeve is shed notice his laid back ears and demure posture.  I like your patient approach with him. Thank the lady for fostering him for you and train him on up!!!!