Aggression, Hard Dogs and thoughts out loud - Page 2

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GSDfan

by GSDfan on 23 May 2016 - 10:05

Mackenzie: Once a dog bites whether it is for IPO, Sch H, or, a pet dog it is always for real. A bite is a bite particularly when it is a member of the public going about their normal way of life or a child.

GSDfan: A dog trained to bite an IPO sleeve for the IPO sport most likely will not bite a person for real without additional training. I do not know one experienced person who will disagree with that.

Mackenzie: Not totally true. Sometimes it can be temperament but once a dog has been trained the situations for the dog perceiving a situation incorrectly come from it's training. People running is always a reason to stop or bite them in the dogs mind. That is what they are trained to do

GSDfan: Part of training a protection dog (who is trained for more than IPO) is also training obedience and control. A typical German Shepherd trained in protection will not indiscriminately bite. They are trained to obey commands, and the only situation where they are not required to wait for a command is when their handler is assaulted.

by Mackenzie on 23 May 2016 - 10:05

GSDfan your question is not pertinent to this topic.

Just for you as a potted history I came into the breed in 1970 and I have shown my dogs and handled dogs for other people. I have also trained dogs, my own and other peoples. I have bred dogs and bought dogs from Germany for myself and for other people. I was a Member of the SV for about twenty five years. I have judged the breed.

Mackenzie

GSDfan

by GSDfan on 23 May 2016 - 10:05

It is because your misconception of dogs trained to bite shows you are inexperienced with protection dogs.

by Mackenzie on 23 May 2016 - 11:05

GSDfan what do you think I was doing as a trainer/handler. I have no misconceptions regarding the bite work.

Instead of trying to pick holes in what I have or have not done why do you not spend the time in dealing with the topic of the thread? Are you incapable of that?

If you disagree with something that I have said then say so and why you do not agree.

Mackenzie

GSDfan

by GSDfan on 23 May 2016 - 11:05

Sounded to me like your experience is with showdogs in the show ring but if you say otherwise...ok.

Otherwise I have answered your questions.

by duke1965 on 23 May 2016 - 11:05

mackenzie, I agree with GSD fan, your perception of the whole biting part is a little bit different than reality,

most strong dominant and agressive dogs are family dogs even the ones in policeforces are living with the familie and kids outside the job

IPO dogs dont need to be "untrained "after their sport carier to live hapily ever after, and all these dog function well on a walk in the park

by Mackenzie on 23 May 2016 - 12:05

Duke 1965 Let me say first that you are taking the thread off point. Please read my original post and in particular the second paragraph. That is the real topic of this thread and not to where GSDfan and yourself are taking it with your comments.

Mackenzie

by crumbs on 23 May 2016 - 13:05

Read your first post.
A dog that could end up dangerous and a liability wouldn't/shouldn't be trained by any responsible owner or trainer, especially if part of its role is as a family companion.

I honestly don't know how you train hardness or aggression, without putting a dog under what I'd consider unnecessary stress. My current dog could be a bit too soft but we'll see as he matures. I don't want the dog to pushed too hard too early to make it a liability. Will current training change his social side no, future training won't change him either.

I have a dog here that has had no bite training and it is a liability. It's the dog being trained anyone can make a dog bite, but it's training the dog with the right mind to bite that is difference.

by Gustav on 23 May 2016 - 13:05

The "topic"; being the end all and be all for folks in the USA is poppycock and certainly written from a lack of knowledge!
The insinuated (Aggressive or Hard )dogs being sought, is inflated also in reality, and the inference that these dogs are primarily sought or bred for in America is also faulty.
So the whole premise is based on incorrect assumptions, " that are infrequent and exceptions" thus making the extending thought of little value in my opinion. I do not mean this maliciously, but from a point of knowledge about GS values in USA.
I dare say that Holland and Belgium have a much greater affinity for the hard/aggressive dog( though these two terms can be vastly different, but OP put them in same topic line), than the USA in sport.


by Gustav on 23 May 2016 - 13:05

I have talked to American Breed Judges ( more than one) that adamantly believe Sch is the basis for creating vicious dogs. This is really true, just go on some of the ASL forums. Now these people have been in the breed for many years as Judges, and usually were handlers/trainers before they became Judges. ....but their knowledge of Sch/ protection training/ OR the understanding of dogs that are suited for this, is so limited as to have these beliefs!
So context in this subject is needed, imo, to make declarations or even debate with skilled practitioners of these endeavors. Not saying everyone can't have an opinion, but again context is important in evaluating opinions.





 


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