What is a Gansta Dog? - Page 9

Susie, in color genetics 1+2 may give you 1 or 2, but can also give you 3 sable + bicolor, can give you sable or bicolor, maybe black too 

You want to see a more complex Punnett square?

No Gustav, I don't think you would fabricate anything. I believe in you and what you say. Just trying to learn things and clear doubts.

No Susie, my head is already spinning 

Susie, I thank God for 2 things:

1. At my time, engineering did not have so many strange terms and definitions like those I learn here

2. Neither Gustav nor Prager were the ones who made the quiz papers, I  never would have passed  

Ibrahim, I have good ideas why these breeders you are talking about kept gangster dogs out of sight. Maybe it was because world is full of ignorant fools who seek every opportunity to destroy you. You show them something like I am trying to do and they see it as an opportunity to slug you and hopefully destroy you.

Mathew 7:6 ....... “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

 

Now there were many gangster dogs shown competed and admired by people who understand.

Question: Ibrahim:"You can produce hard dogs from one hard parent or two hard parents, using a gansta is not the only way around. So why risk getting few gansta dogs in a litter when you can get hard dogs and nil ganstas (when using a hard parent not a gansta one) ?"

Answer:   Gangster dogs if used are used because they have what is rare. Many hard dogs have  issues and instabilities, but  when you see gangster dogs   you see the raw origins of hardness. You know like in digital photography you have mode RAW where there is everything recorded.  Raw data. That is your Gangster dog-genetically RAW. when you as a breeder are tapping into it it is like sculpturing from raw piece of marble.   Where today hard dogs are like edited version of RAW photography. They are like  TV dinner where all you need to do is to throw it into microwave. But the meal has much to be desired in comparison to meal cooked by a chef from raw ingredients. Same way  true art photographer likes to work from RAW and some breeders for the same reason  like to work from Gangster dog . 

 

 And when you find  true gangster dog who produces  his desirable traits then it is like you are tapping into foundation of the "hard" trait. What we have genetically now in todays dogs  are only derivatives of the past true hard  dogs.  Now we have only edited versions and now and then nature gives a glimpse ito past by giving us a gangster dog.

 Gangster dogs were used more  then now in past because the blood lines then were not as strong. Thus these dogs were seen as an opportunity to improve hardness of the line.

The use of gangster dogs today is here  because breeding current  hard dog  to hard dog  leads to degeneration since there are less  and less hard dogs available due to softening  of western culture which culls these  true type 1 hard dogs out and that leads to genetic bottle neck.   You know like when you keep editing photography you get more and more noise until the photo is useless.  Gangster dogs if they are  true , give us more genetic diversity. That is why some breeders   look to sources like this.  That is why  true gangster dog will give you certain quality which is hard to described but obvious when you see it. I call it "presence" which makes you shit your pants when the dog like that just looks at you.  Like wolf with its mesmerizing primitive look.   Some of us like it. 

 Prager Hans 

 

 

Hans: " hard to described but obvious when you see it. I call it "presence" which makes you shit your pants when the dog like that just looks at you. Like wolf with its mesmerizing primitive look. Some of us like it. "

This is quite true. I have seen a few male German Shepherds and the way they move about in their territory is just amazing, but will scare the " sh.." out of you. It is something you have to experience to understand it. Wish more GSD's were like this.

'I wish more gsds were like this.'

How many gsds have you seen. Or do you mean yo wish more gsds you see 'were like this' ? ( have presents) I own males and females with a presents which can be scary to some people.

This has been an interesting thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed information.

 

I've often wondered at what's happened to the Dobermann breed. Reading and listening to verbal recollections on Dobermann's of the past indicates that the breed was once quite different from today. People tend to embellish or have selective memories so one must take past accounts with a grain of salt, no matter what the breed. Even if the past descriptions are exaggerated, the Dobermann of today still isn't even close to yesteryears dog. 

 

A huge number of Dobermann's have been euthanized over the years for being 'aggressive', 'attacking' their owners, etc. I can't help but wonder if some of these were the equivalent of the GSD "gangster" dogs described in this thread. If so, the loss of these Dobermann's from the gene pool could help explain why today's breeders are having such a difficult time producing good working Dobermann's.

 

This thread (and forum) is pretty well dominated by GSD folks, but if anyone has Dobermann experience I'd like to hear your thoughts on Dobermann 'gangster' dogs. Do they exist? Who are they? Have they influenced the breed and if so, which lines/pedigrees? 

adhahn, when I was still training in holland I was training with some dobermanbreeders who were searching for some stronger dobermann, when in fact they found one , one trainer/breeder in my club bought it and first day of training got seriously attacked by the doberman, result was guy to hospital and doberman put to sleep

now for me the reaction of the dobe was very explainable and I for one would not put the dog to sleep, these breeders are driving all over europe to find strong dog, and when they had one they killed it day one

my look on this thing is that breeds who mostly worked over agression and not prey, like also rotties and bouviers, got between wall and ship at the moment that sport training became all prey, where previously mentioned breeds dont work on prey mainly it became hard to keep up in race for points

this definately is affecting german shepherd and malinois breed as we speak