Constant Unsureness in a Dog: What causes this? - Page 2

Exactly as I thought, the dog was born with genes which triggers this behavior, in otherwards, probably not taught this behavior by his handler, yet handler is trying to control the "bad" behavior with not only l e-collar but 2.??

So like I meant to explain in above post the dog had these genes at birth for this type outcome. I had a girl with the exact opposite problem; she was very shy and unfriendly to strangers, would only suckle her milk if certain people fed her and ONLY if and when SHE was hungry. This was observed at 2 days old. This bitch was born with this behind her genes as behind her were also some more reserved and soft tempermented dogs. Was NEVER able to change her attitude towards other people or other dogs for that matter; lived in fear most of her life; yet she was also somewhat of a tuff girl as structurally she was extremely sound. Mentally she was a train wreck. So very sad but through this experience of rearing and raising her learned that it was genetics. Just who she was, and beautiful to boot.

So there are some things etched in these animals that you cannot change. Only try to train them with the outcome you are looking for but the dog will let you know if your "training technique" is going to work. OR NOT...Nan

There a load of genetic BS being used to explain why stupid humans pick the wrong dog for the job or sport and then use the wrong training techniques to make their first mistakes even worse. When you pick a Mal you should expect to get bit by your dog either by accident or just because of the Mals "do before you think" brain. The dog's genes were not making him flinch and anticipate getting shocked or punished .. that was all stupid human tricks taught to him in IPO training. Sounds like a good dog with a mediocre trainer. Worrying about IPO titles when you need two electric collars on your dog is stupidity defined. Whether the dog is super aggressive or not is open to question as well .. I have sent 15-18 month old "sweetie" dogs off to other people and later they call me telling me that the sugar dog is a mini T-Rex. Usually that is just pilot error and pushing a new dog not acclimated to a new home or handler too far and too fast. Worshiping IPO does not make you a trainer, breeder, or handler which is a point of confusion in the ever shrinking IPO world.

Really , he told you the dog was better suited for police work ?? Forget about IPO ... dogs with this make up and trained in this manner are not a suitable IPO candidates . . Believe me , Mithuna , I trained State Police Canines. IMOp , all officers too , have a responsibility to control their canines !! Common Sense ...
If that is the only way to control the dog.. does one think this dog should even be working ? And IMOp this dog should never be awarded any title. Any dog that has this regard for his/her handler is not a suitable dog. It's a dangerous dog !!But there are many people out there in the dog world , that perpetuate this . And many breeders have no regard to what they are breeding..not all .. but many. In actuality , this is criminal . In my State , one would be indicted and prosecuted for animal cruelty followed by jail time !!

His reasoning is that police work does not require as much precise obedience, so the dog has some more latitude . The dog already got IPO2 and is being prepared for 3.

Centurian its a common thing to see dogs and many guys see it as " scars " of battle. You get respect with those scars. ( so they say ). I was told that he would be sold after the IPO3.

Mals can be difficult because they tend to be handler sensitive. This can manifest as handler aggression especially in higher caliber dogs.

They also frustrate more easily due to their level of intensity and drive and can redirect on the handler.

These type of dogs require intelligent training and intelligent handling and sometimes you still get bit.

Handler aggressive dogs are not ideal for police work. Most depts will return such a dog.

I use a double box e collar on my Mal for a variety of reasons. Most important is that I can deliver an impersonal correction or create pressure were necessary. He would take a voice correction or physical correction much more personally and in some cases could and would bite me. These dogs are not for everyone, but when you have a good one watching them work is a pleasure.

What mithuna saw, and what the dog actually is I would guess are most likely two different things.

what I tipically see in malinois and several famous GSD sport lines as well, is dogs "looking " perfect when in drive , facing a sleeve/suit or ball and even looking like superdogs at work, but really falling apart when all triggers are removed and the dog is on its own , so this might be the case in this dog, but it is hard to say without actually seeing the dog personally here is example of such dog, I tested for policework, hard to imagine that if you take away this dogs drive triggers he is very insecure, shaking like a straw, I actually took this dog on probation and worked him several weeks, but not suitable to walk the street or trainingfield without showing him ANY prey items

 

https://youtu.be/cnnBtkwrjPk

Good replies, Haz, and Duke!

Quite probably an accurate reply, vk4. : )

Yes good posts :
I agree with Duke , many dogs work or seem ok on the field , take them into real life and they are not the same , sort to speak .
In reply to Haz post , it is good , says a lot :

"They also frustrate more easily due to their level of intensity and drive and can redirect on the handler".
By my standards , home companion , sport , police, military -- in any endeavor the dog is your partner and vice a verse. However , this is not , can never ever ever ever, be acceptable, for any dog or handler. Doesn't matter , if the dog can be handled . it is as I have written not a good dog nor should someone ever ever ever tolerate this from a dog.

" Handler aggressive dogs are not ideal for police work."
By my standards, because they can work that doesn't mean they should be suitable for any work . Unfortunately , sadly, I have seen police dogs with this aggression .

"These type of dogs require intelligent training and intelligent handling and sometimes you still get bit"
Intelligence would be : to have the in depth canine knowledge to realize the situation for both the handler and dog , and thereby conclude that it is best to not work these dogs. If you know your partner may transfer aggression or bite you [ bite you bad enough to cause serious injury , maybe life threatening at that ] , why would any REASOPNABLE clear headed person undertake that endeavor ? Your dog is to be working for you - and you have to worry about aggression transference, .. that's supposed to be intelligent ? Is that what anyone is to understand,m while there exists plenty of other canines with very very very good mindset and capability to do sport or police work. [ BTW i have owned Mals , so i understand the breed perfectly well ]

Why I write this , because it is the sale of these dogs , the working of these dogs, that perpetuates the very very bad genetics currently within the breeds , mal , shepherds alike , at the expense and ignorance of the buyer. . I have seen this go on for years and years uncontrolled. and the decline of the breeds both GS and Mal. [ another thread for another day ]