Canine Intelligence: Whats your story? - Page 2

Dog put another dog in a room and then closes the door to keep him in .. ie she ( the dog ) puts the other dog to bed. Several dogs that opened doors .. some that opened and closed them behind them .. one that opened kennel doors to let other dogs out to play. One young dog would drag a chair over to the window so that he could look out the window and watch the other dogs play ball with me. Lots of examples of empathy, sharing, and forgiveness. Dogs teaching other dogs and of course there is the well documented cases of both intra and inter species friendships between dogs and other non-human animals. Then there are the "dark side" behaviors so prevalent in humans ( spite, jealousy, hate, etc. ) which also occur in dogs but are labeled as "animal" behaviors when not observed in humans ( who are also animals ). Dogs are intelligent beings with a range of intelligent and abstract reasoning not the same as humans but also similar.

Define what is meant by intelligence ....that helps on a thread .
IMOp , the German Shepherd dog is one of the best in the world , thinking, problem solving dogs , anyone could ever have.
One aspect of intelligence , IMO , is the ability to gather information and to internalize that information such that it creates an understanding / meaning .. that transforms the subject so that the subject is later able to use that information itself or combined with previously acquired information in situations. That I stress again : intelligence also requires / [ the ability to apply ] , the use of the information.
Animals, dogs have a very high ability to do that. Generalization , requires intelligence. GS for a fact can deductive reason , not inductive ,,, deductive. For example , they learn , sometimes by 1 experience : "if this... then that " . Sometimes just doing something 1 time , a dog can understand. Ask yourself ... how many times does a dog need to go by your fireplace before it learns that fire , intense heat , is not so good ? How many times does it take to learn that if it pops open a latch , on purpose or by mistake , it can get free ? Smart dogs , maybe once , stupid dogs ... maybe 100 times .. really dumb dogs .. they never learn.
I want to add , I just read my issue of Sch USA , at least for the first time , an most excellent article written about Pavlovian / Classical conditioning [ although maybe written to academically for youth handlers ]. Nothing new , as this learning theory has been around for 60 ++ years ,. or more. worth reading !! Nice article !! Next issue an article on Operant / Instrumental Conditioning . Which brings me to say in reference to the topic of Intelligence : I have seen and some of my psychologists friends I train with also have seen , that our gs have at times figured out , that they were being Instrumentally Conditioned trained !! I have seen gs owners , use this training notion only to see that the dog had in truth not only figured the jist , but in, fact turned the tables and in essence trained the trainers *. So... to the original poster .. great topic for this site to discuss . !! I warn people I teach ... the dog is ALWAYS thinking and will figure many times things out.
I live with a pack of gs.. But they taught me more than anyone could. I see in the pack , differences ,like people ,degrees and TYPES** of Intelligence. For example , The Alpha - often , it is the smartest dog, not the most powerful or strongest. Some dogs have brawn but no brains !! And the others gravitate to this intelligence , which results , in social allies lending to the alpha status. The alpha frequently is the one that has the backing of it's canine friends . No different than gang leader having the backup of the members . The alpha who formed the allies became in certain situations the leader, meaning the other dogs recognized his/her ability to use information RELIABLY, to solve problems and to make pack decisions for their betterment , survival. . Call that" Social Intelligence " too , in light of the other forms of intelligence people and dogs hold .
What are your views - I like to hear form the PDB members on this topic and your stories.

I had a little spat with Hexe, months ago on a different topic,
where she was arguing that canines are more 'intelligent' than
I was giving them credit for; I pointed out that if anyone could
show me dogs altruistically leading a campaign for any kind of
civil rights, or something like that, I would accept that definition
of intelligence.

You are right Centurian, we should define the concept first. Not start threds seeking to get everyone agreeing how

clever a poster's own dog is, just because it does something that turns out to be no more than one could normally expect from many dogs.

Fully agreed that companion animals, dogs cats or anything else, but with GSDs high up among them, show they are empathetic, and clever in getting things ordered to suit their needs - but while that is quite bright, it isn't going to pass a University Degree or win a Nobel.
The anthropomorphic thinking that humans are tempted to fall into has, at it's extreme end result, the whole dressing up / pampering / 'I can tell exactly what he's thinking' / 'he is so sad because of his poor start in life' / 'he understands every word I say' / fur babies shtick. {Shudder!}

Yep; animals can be smart, within their own boundaries, I am not arguing that they never are - or indeed that sometimes that degree of 'smarts' isn't particularly commendable. Battersea Dogs Home had a dog (not a GSD unfortunately) that used to regularly go through opening ALMOST ALL their kennels (having first let himself out of his own) - the only dogs he did not let out were those he consistently did not get on well with. But this is a spectrum of animal intelligence,
not to be confused with a universal intelligence, in which (most !) humans seem to be the leaders by several furlongs.
The jury is still out on cetacean species. :)

here is my story and I am sticking to it. I do not want a dog smarter than me. I wish for drive and instinct. Watch any of those TV shows on our prison system. A lot of those convict guys sound intelligent.

Especially those inmates participating in Assistance Dog Training ?

My five month old male not only whimpered but body slamed at the door when he wants in. But now he has learned to actually TURN the round conventional door knob to open the door and let himself in....I call that problem solving. Not a big deal for a primate, but for a pup to figure out on his own to stand on hind legs and turn the knob with his front feet? I call that brain power.
BTW, he is crated in the house at night if he's not sleeping on the porch.

Mithuna, puppies whimper to communicate their needs to the mother dog....it's how they communicate.

The limiting factor in developing and understanding canine intelligence is human intelligence.

RLHAR, the cat I mentioned hated being locked up in my grandmother's small 'granny suite' in our house. When we closed the door, he'd watch us carefully, then he'd scratch at the knob, trying to get it to work. The knob didn't turn, there was a spring-loaded latch at the top of the door that would open when you pulled on the knob.

He kept trying, and soon found if he lay on his back, and hooked a paw under the door, he could pop it open.

We had to tie it shut after that, by tying the 2 handles together (there were 2 doors, with the handles close enough together that you could loop something over them.)

Once she passed away, he got the freedom of the whole house. However, when the days got longer, he wanted to go outside at 5:30 am so he could hunt birds for breakfast. My mom didn't care for being woken up at that hour, so she'd lock him in grandma's old apartment. He would pop the door open, and rattle it back and forth until she couldn't stand it anymore, and got up to let him out. I still remember her saying, "The rattler's at it again!"

Damn, he was one smart cat, and I still miss him!

Several of my dogs can unbolt doors and even unclip a trigger hook securing the bolt first, but one, Dvorak (Jeck v Noricum son) took it to a new level. To ensure he did not let out an "in season" bitch, the coach bolt was secured with a padlock and the key hung on a chain by the door. Having tried to undo the padlock as if it was a trigger hook, he clearly revised his technique by sniffing the padlock down to the keyhole, sniffing the key and then trying to pull the key towards the keyhole. Of course I did not imagine he could have actually put the key in and opened it, but I find the way he made the connection of the key to the keyhole remarkable. This same dog worked out how to open a combination padlock as well, as best I could see with it in his mouth, he appeared to move the dial with his tongue and tug gently, presumably til he felt it give or heard it click.

Margaret Nyrvana-Jones

Margaret, thank God he didn't have opposable thumbs! 

I know a lady who had a Shiloh shepherd (they have more GSD blood than anything else) that kept getting out of the garage.

She was blaming her son and husband, until she saw the dog stand on its hind legs and push the button for the door. They had to move it to a spot out of the dog's reach.