Dog with prey drive cannot access drive during bitework - Page 3

Gustav

Can you give a scenario example?

The best helper I know will use a whip with a 15mo old dog if needed Joanro. That's nonsense. MITHUNA..... What you need to do is join (PRONOUNCED K9) run by one of rhe best helpers in country IMO (BRIAN HARVEY)especially with dogs who work primarily in defense. We have schH3 dogs in our club who were (WASHED OUT) for doing exactly what your dog is doing. ;-) He will guide both you and your helper. You video what you are doing and post it on the site and he will counter and show you what you need to be doing. Best training site there is PERIOD to show you what you need for YOUR DOG and not some Malinois on a dvd ;-) Its $25 a month the belong. Gustav is right when he talks about helpers under 50 but there are a few who know how and 2 of them are also on the sight. This site is by far the best thing for new handlers and helpers a like. Good luck with your girl.

'The best helper I know will use a whip with a 15mo old dog if needed Joanro. That's nonsense. '

The key words by you IF NEEDED. If NEEDED implies your 'best helper' does not use the whip when NOT NEEDED. So my comment about cookie cutter training using a whip with out consideration for INDIVIDUAL dogs is certainly NOT nonsense. Gustav was saying the same thing I did, essentially, about misuse of the whip. Like him, it makes me want tothrow up as well. 

http://www.pronouncedk9.com/ Here is a link to their site. I encourage all new handler /helper teams to try this site out. Brian has been doing helper work for 36yrs and knows how to get the best out of your dog. Most young helpers are taught sport training only and when the training don't fit the dog the dog is no good. This is not always the case and one reason why you seldom see hard tough dogs with defense take any podiums here unless they are imported national level dogs before they ever arrived. Even in europe you are seeing a decline in these dogs doing any winning with the point system these days. I will say this... don't give up on a dog until you've tried (pronounced k9) and if you have a helper who is willing to learn and doesn't already (know it all) ;-) you should have success. I can assure you your female won't be REACTIVE only after a week with Brian. This site is the best thing to have seen to date. Again.... good luck with your female.

What Mithuna discribes is the well known circle, helper in the middle, several dogs around, so they are able to stimulate each other.
I never liked this for my dogs, every dog is different, there are different training levels, and there are different temperaments/drives.
Your girl seems to be totally confused right now - she never was a social dog, now she has to "play" in a pack ...
A stranger behaving weird ( helper / whip ) for her is a real threat, no way to get her into "play" mode.
Furthermore at home you trained with a tug, now there is a sleeve ( she doesn´t even know what to do / no trigger ).
Defense will always be stronger than preydrive in this scenario ( stranger, movement, whip ).

You need to change the training.
There are two possibilities:
Either supporting the preydrive and building up confidence to the helper ( no distractions, passive helper, tug on rope, no sleeve yet ) or
defense training ( no distractions,too, a good helper, no bites for a couple of weeks )
Your dog is a housedog and family companion, in this case I´d choose the first possibility.
Good luck!

There are a lot of experience people who give you advice in this topic

But what you need is REALY good trainer who can read your dog and make a plan how to train

Training  serious dogs you don,t learn on a forum, Leerburg videos, books etc.you can make easy mistakes,

I read a lot good comments here but I haven,t seen you and your dog in real life I must see
the whole picture and details . Take your time and find a realy good quality helper.


Good luck.

I would start a young pup on a bite pillow, or tug, with about a at least a 8ft lead attached to it. You can then work your way down the lead so that you do not pressure the pup when its natural aggression has not matured yet. This should help build the pups confidence. There seems to be a big hurry to rush a dog to bark, or to get on a trial sleeve. I have never been ask the question on a trial field "So at what age did your dog bite a sleeve".

I would start a young pup on a bite pillow, or tug, with about a at least a 8ft lead attached to it. You can then work your way down the lead so that you do not pressure the pup when its natural aggression has not matured yet. This should help build the pups confidence. There seems to be a big hurry to rush a dog to bark, or to get on a trial sleeve. I have never been ask the question on a trial field "So at what age did your dog bite a sleeve".

Cracking a whip doesn't make defense in all dogs. With many dogs a whip crack is a prey driving behavior. The whipping of the feet however is a defense driving behavior and I wouldn't allow your helper to do that. Your dog doesn't sound like it's capable of transferring the defense into a prey attack at this time.

I also don't understand the "puppy circle" your dog is way too old for it. Plus, if you have 20 handlers and dogs, there is no way the dogs can get rewarded at the right time or when they finally do show the wanted behavior. The goal of the circle is to drive competition and frustration and that's what gets the puppies to bark and bite. Your dog is way past that stage and should be worked one on one with the helper. I would still use prey frustration to get your dog to bark, but that should be done one on one.

Gustav, if you wrote a book about working a dog in defense, I'd be the first to buy it :D