GSD forums and Lists - Page 3

Just like there is no perfect person, there is no perfect dog. There are people who disagree and constructively criticize with class and knowledge. Others don't. There are people who are passionate about their dogs, there are others who are passionate about the breed. Then there are some who who really don't want to acknowledge much less correct shortcomings in the breed no matter how gentle the criticism is. Things perish because of a lack of knowledge, there is so much misinformation spewed about the breed these days, primarily because many of these forums are now mainly posted on by people who weigh in on everything with their feelings as opposed to actual knowledge. If challenged with facts or experience they either become maligned or angry and nasty. All dogs and lines can stand improvement, but folks are much more concerned about their feelings than integrity of the breed. All GS should be loved, but all GS are not good representatives of the breed per the standard. In order to keep the breed noble, decisions and opinion should be grounded in knowledge and experience and truth! There is no reason for rudeness, or vitriol on forums, but education and knowledge should also be very important on forums for novices to learn and misinformation be corrected.

Applause Gustav!

Gustav,

 

IMHO - you are a class act. Unfortunately, it has been my observations over the many years of being here that you are among the few who not only have experience and knowledge but you have a very articulate way of saying things others don't. I can never remember you being uncivil to anyone - you have never to my knowledge gotten up in the face of an admin. I can't say that about others including myself but there is a fine line between pushing someone to far and knowing when to back off. To be blunt, I have at times been appalled by our lack of understanding and compassion to novices and newbies.

I don't train - I have gotten out of breeding - I have all but given up on GSDs. When you get ripped off with shitty dogs with bad hips, elbows and allergies over and over - well you get discouraged. BTW - some of these dogs came from well established breeders. Now throw into the equation how you are treated by other breeders and then to come here and see some of the crap I have seen over the years has pretty much soured me on the people involved.

Want to know the main reason Oli asked me to admin - not because of knowledge and experience - it was because I am not really tied to any person, group or organization. He tried those people in the past and they didn't work out so well. Once he got to know me after SP - he could tell I wasn't on the side of breeders, WL, SL, SV, AKC, or any training organizations. I care about dogs and people. I have said it many times - the only reason I ever started posting here was the constant BS that some members couldn't stop posting on a dog forum with no OT section. I used this site as a major resource for pedigrees and information. I could not stand what it had become. A place of bigots, racism and disrespect. When my posts were taken away - I asked Oli straight up why my posts disappeared when anti-Semitism, racism and bigotry was allowed to stand. He asked for examples and was appalled at what I showed him. He really had no clue these things were being said on his site, this shit coming from dog people.

We don't all have to agree and we can and should argue our points fiercely but with respect, civility, compassion and understanding.

 

Regards,

Mick

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe I am a "pet owner" since my dog has 7 titles. What an ignorant argument to make....I'm out training and competing and still think all the negativity just sucks. I think people who make excuses for the negativity and call others thin skinned should get off the forum and leave it to us "pet owners" so we can try out the quote below. 

love this quote, Mick......

"We don't all have to agree and we can and should argue our points fiercely but with respect, civility, compassion and understand"

 

Sarah

 for Gustav   and  Mick.  (and  Smiley).

I was going to post that I thought IMLD ( and to some extent NP) entirely

missed the OP's point;  but I came back to the thred rather late.  What

Cliff says is so true, and fair.  I don't think anybody is complaining

about posters correcting information, or arguing their case, especially

when it is clearly from a position of experience.  What IS very off-putting

is to be told one is e.g. "stupid" or a "pinhead" for having a different view, on

any subject, dogs or sports/work, or OT.  Its entirely unnecessary.

Agree and just because a dog doesn't have an IPO title doesn't make that dog crap.

I want to hear from all GSD lovers....IPO, AKC/UKC/SV Conformation, Agility, Obedience, Tracking, Lure Coursing, Barn Hunt, People who don't show, service dog people, etc. I think we should create a safe place to learn from each other. And...I can't stand the attitude that people with "just" pets can't have an opinion. Pets (non competition dog) are what make the breed go round. They are equally as valuable as a competition dog.

There are people in our breed who have to be negative, critical, and personal. Let's go back to what we learned in preschool....if you don't have anything nice to say than don't say it.

There is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.

"Let's go back to what we learned in preschool....if you don't have anything nice to say than don't say it."

I have said this very thing numerous times but I am willing to go even further - if you can't figure out how to say something without being mean then you are lazy, ignorant or just plain mean hearted. If I say - You are stupid for breeding this dog  or  I wouldn't breed this dog because it is not breed worthy and say why you feel it isn't breed worthy. What response will the first response get? Probably a defensive response that will only escalate the situation but the second response may hit home it may sting at first but it is more likely to be accepted by the person it is addressed to. Calling names is useless and tends to only enflame the situation.

It might work out better if those who are not at all interested in conformation, OB, sport, off topic, etc simply pass over the threads in those forums without reading them?

Good idea; '"lt might work out better if those who are not at all interested in conformation, OB, sport, off topic, etc simply pass over the threads in those forums without reading them? "
That way breed fanciers who are offended by protection training,for example, won't be offended by such training. A lot of threds, however, are not posted into the category designated for them. So how does one avoid the misfortune of inadvertly opening and reading a thred that offends them? Tough job monitoring a forum with so many members...a lot of personalities clashing.
Maybe people should have to sign up for the forum they are interested in, but no crossover...like if you sign up for conformation, you cannot also sign up for sport; if you sign up for working forum, you cannot sign up for show.....you know, segregate the interested groups to prevent opinions or views which may be hurtful to that 'group'.

No good idea, the standard for our breed talks about WORKING ABILITIES and CONFORMATION.
Only a good working dog looking like a German Shepherd dog IS a German Shepherd dog worth breeding.
There is a reason why we need working AND conformation title prior to breeding.
A dog out of working lines must be shown, and a dog out of showlines must be titled.
People tend to forget that a G in conformation means "breedworthy", and people tend to forget that 220 points in IPO mean "pass".

I don´t know how you handle this forum, but at least I simply click on "latest posts" instead of clicking on any special forum, because I´m interested in body AND mind of our dogs. Our breed is multifunctional, that´s the main reason why the breed became this popular. We need all of them, and honestly, a dog that isn´t able to compete in IPO, or is lacking a teeth, or doesn´t fit the standard, is no shitty dog, it´s just not breedworthy ( and that´s MY opinion). What about some tolerance? In almost every litter there are at least one or two "pets" - be it working- or showline. For their owners they be become the best dogs of the world...

What I don´t like are unfoundedly accusations, unproven assertions, plus political/religious insults - besides that I´m totally fine with people defending their personal kind of dog, even if I think different.

At the end of the day we are talking about dogs, not about the sense of life