2015 SV BSZS in Nuremberg video - Page 8

So/wl crosses are done by breeders with a vision, either improving structure or improving temperament and or maintaining both in their dogs that will be achieved in few generations not in one single generation. Those breeders have a long plan on hand and are ready to face lesser market opportunities for a few years, market isn't their main goal anyway, quality of producing pairs is their goal, correct temperament and structure of a GSD is their vision they strive to accomplish and maintain.
If one is worried about puppy sales, can not find proper homes for the puppies, cares much about what trend is governing the present market, he or she should not cross wl to sl.

It was done successfully before, not because of lesser gap between the lines, no, but because more breeders then had a vision and understanding of what they want not what the market demand is. Each of those breeders had a market share of his own shaped up and educated by him that enjoyed his dogs and puppies. 

Many breeders nowadays care only for selling puppies, they do not care for making a difference

Every now and then, Walter Martin is mentioned and accused of ruining the GSD, really?
He had a vision and created market trend, why didn't others do the same with a better vision? Why don't you do it yourself now?
Do not blame others, blame yourselves

For the Breeders who always produce good quality, healthy robust puppies there is always a market for their stock regardless of how they are bred. If the two sides are to be blended together then it takes a bit of foresight on the part of the breeder.

When considering a mating the pedigree is normally the first consideration, however, I do not think that this should necessarily be the starting point. Breeders must look at their females and recognise exactly what she is lacking and what would it take to correct and improve character and structure and anything else that is positive in making such improvements. For me this is the point at which I start to look for a male for the mating. Bearing in mind that it is not possible to achieve everything at once it does provide the opportunity to continue to improve the breeding material for future generations. It does not matter whether the male is from S/L or W/L provided it gives you what is necessary. If Breeders are really honest with themselves as to the quality of their breeding females then time will bring it's rewards. Breeding is not about NOW but for the FUTURE !

Mackenzie

Sorry Ibrahim but breeding is not about market trends. Market trends usually take the Breed along the wrong path as recent history has shown.

Walter Martin was a good Breeder but there has to be some doubt over his success much of which was made because of his brother Hermann Martin who had the breed in the palm of his hand for around twenty years, first as Bundeszuchtwart and then as President.

Mackenzie

That is what I am saying, those who care about the trend can not make a difference

Sorry Ibrahim but the trend set by Hermann Martin has been followed since his departure, hence the lack of use of grey, bicolour and black dogs and the inbreed brought down to two males who both have the same sire. The trend for the black an red colours also continues. IMO it is the trends that have contributed to widened the gap between show and working dogs.

Mackenzie

Speaking of the breed in general, mix of the 2 types is necessary for both. Sl lacks temperament and proper working structure, Wl lacks proper structure and maybe balanced drives, don't kill me if the latter is not the proper term.
Both can benefit from each other to balance out. As long as color is too important for sl breeders, there will never be a cure. Sl dogs need less rear angulation for better performance, stronger temperament for better work ability.
As long as both camps go on ignoring the need for improvement, breed will suffer

I absolutely agree with you now Ibrahim.

Mackenzie

Both of you are correct in your own way.

If you could get together over a beer I am sure you could thrash out your differences. For what its worth I have been doing what you both recommend; I have used a "Working Dog" on my Show lines females, and because I have a strong female line built up over the last 30 odd years "He" did not upset type much at all. I got improvements in bone, tight feet like we used to have in the 70's with thick pads, coats were improved, the strength of character (hardness) was also improved and because he was a dominant grey consequently all his puppies were grey. The next generation will be more interesting when I use show lines back onto his progeny.

Take "MONEY" out of the equation and the breed will improve !!

When people that used to breed as a hobby and not as a living, we were as one.

Take out the hype and the money oriented people and hope they move onto another breed.

It's not about what is best for the breed, It's about the insane need to prove that one line or the other is not breed worthy.  In most breeds, breeders cooperate with one another with a common goal - to better the breed.  Free stud services, leasing bitches to one another, exchanging dogs, etc are not unheard of. If those things happen with GSD's. I've never heard of it.