Line breeding on females? - Page 2

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by bebo on 18 June 2015 - 06:06

your (observed) measuring units are both based on what's believed to be largely governed by the 'sports genes' -- ACTN3 (R,P) and ACE (I, D). the genotypic expression of these genes have a large impact on contraction and endurance of skeletal muscle. one of the corollaries of (successive) line breeding is a reduced rate of recombination. that is, line breeding fosters the establishment and reinforcement, for better or worse, of expression patterns. hence, it's more than plausible that the results of your program are directly and entirely DNA-based. your conclusion re the importance of mtDNA is quite correct especially as it comes to fueling the beasts, the inference by exclusion, however, not so. a pretty well cited article in the european journal of human genetics reports on the myDNA and ACTN3 expression in finnish athletes (2005, Niemi & Majamaa, 13, 965-969) and there was a pretty decent article about the individual and combined effects of ACE and ACTN3  in the scandinavian journal of medicine & science in sports (2013, Erskine, R.M. et al, 24,4 642-648). also, as it happens, the red jungle fowl and its descendants have been a favorite among researches. have a look at http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/7/1537.full.pdf and http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/14/86 as well as the provided references. cheers.


jemi

by jemi on 19 June 2015 - 17:06

this is an interesting thread, the only thing is that I use chicken (sorry, about this) because I base this on our actual experience.  Anyway, base on my previous illustration, I can put this in simpler words.  They are like cars with the same body build but running on different engines.  The other  is a V6, while the other is a V12.

 


by hexe on 20 June 2015 - 03:06

There's a significant difference between breeding dogs and breeding poultry or livestock--with the latter, if a mating has disasterous results you can always eat the mistakes, and the bad results are not likely to break someone's heart, either.

That said, I would rather have one really good bitch with an unbroken line of strong females in the maternal side as far back as there is recorded history than one hundred of the very best stud dogs even  ever   whelped. 


by vk4gsd on 20 June 2015 - 05:06

did I read right, someone is posting about breeding game chickens for fighting?????

WTF, mods.


by hexe on 20 June 2015 - 06:06

vk4gsd, while cock fighting has finally been outlawed in ALL US states, it remains legal to BREED 'game chickens' in this country, and I know fighting them is legal elsewhere in the world, so I didn't make an issue of it...but I wondered about that, too.


by thexwolf on 21 June 2015 - 02:06

Well, I'm glad this has striked up interesting conversation. I don't have much to add as I'm the one who asked the question, but I'm glad to see that the females are very important! Interesting facts about genetics and I'm now starting to realize I barely know the tip of the iceberg! 

The pup I planned on has not worked out - maybe I'll be able to find a prospective pup with a strong motherline. 

Thanks for all the responses and interesting opinions!


jemi

by jemi on 22 June 2015 - 15:06

I know some horrible people whose deeds are enjoyed by most people today, including myself.  To name a few there was Gen. George Washington fighting his Eslin Redquills, bringing them with him and fighting against his people whenever they have a break. He stated in his will to set his slaves free, and educate them, one of the first person to do it.  Abraham Lincoln earned his nickname "Honest Abe" being a fair cockfighting referee, one said "“As long as the Almighty has permitted intelligent men, created in 
his likeness to fight in public and kill each other while the world looks 
on approvingly, it’s not for me to deprive the chickens of the same 
privilege.” 
  Andrew Jackson and Thomas Jefferson fighting his Jackson Blackhackles, and Nicolas Arrington of North Carolina a very ealthy man who treats his black workers fairly, not as slaves.  He named his strain of chickens Cripple Tony Roundheads after his disabled chicken handler Tony, a black man.  During those time when americans and mexicans are killing each other in war, Nick Arrington and Antonio Lopez de Santa Ana, or General Santa Ana fought a main of 324 roosters along the banks of Rio Grande.  A time when war stopped and warring parties unite in peace to fight their chickens, where Nick Arrington won.  

Canadians Fred Banting and Dr. Charles Best discoverd insulin and utilize it for diabetes.  In the process more than a dozen dogs died, but are saving millions of people today.

Animal Rights activists considers themselves almost perfect in treatment of animals.  But they are putting down the majority of the animals they rescued to end their misery, they said ...while continuing to rake in millions in donations. They consider people with working animals and with animals for food immoral, while they are jumping from bed to bed with different men or women.  Some will have their naked pictures and porno movies shown to the world, and they don't consider these immoral.  they call these art.  Only afew that you can see around happening.

Is the world changing from worst to better or better to worst?  It is hard to judge, nobody is perfect.  It depends on how you look at it, but before judging somebody, we need to judge ourselves first.  Maybe we are also hiding some horrible things within ourselves.

 

 


Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 22 June 2015 - 16:06

To clarify, my "agree" on vk4's post was that I had the same initial though, minus the "WTF mods" part. I don't see any need for moderation of any of the topic, I merely had the same thought as he did "Wow, someone's talking about this publicly." 


by hexe on 22 June 2015 - 19:06

jemi, for my part, if modern cock-fighting consisted of nothing more than placing two healthy roosters on a piece of ground where either or both birds could choose to flee rather than fight--and sans all man-made adornments such as razor spurs, with natural spurs that weren't honed, sharpened or kept protected from getting rounded off in the course of the birds' normal activities, which had the natural comb they were born with, and which were not fed or injected with anabolic steroids, pain control or psychotropic medications--I wouldn't have any objections to that activity. Anyone who keeps poultry and has more than one rooster in their flock has 'cock fights' from time to time when one roo' decides the other is getting to close to one of the first roo's hens, and there is not denying the activity is interesting and even entertaining to a point...but neither rooster ends up dead as long as they have the option of safe retreat. And if folks wanted to bet on that kind of fighting, it would matter not to me--but as soon as money enters the picture, man's ethics go to hell and a handbasket.

I have more than just a passing acquaintence with the 'sport' as it takes place today, and it is a problem to me when our species find it entertaining to pit two specimens of other species against one another in a setting from which neither can safely retreat, and the point of the action is for the specimens to inflict harm upon one another up to the point of causing death. It's one thing when we do so with members of our own species, but at least those combatents have an awareness of the risks they're agreeing to, and the free will to choose whether or not to participate. It's not an 'animal rights' thing, at least not to me--it's a responsible stewardship of the species we hold dominion over, and the moral imperitive we have to not see them harmed or killed purely for our entertainment.


Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 03 July 2015 - 15:07

How the heck did this post go from linebreeding to Abraham Lincoln and Slaves?






 


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