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by Abby Normal on 14 May 2013 - 13:05
I thought that cadaver dogs were trained to scent decomposing flesh (ie the gas given off by decomposing bodies) rather than blood?
by clc29 on 14 May 2013 - 14:05
Abby......the term Cadaver dogs has several meanings to some people. Professionals call it Human Remains Detection.
By broad definition it means a that dog has been trained to find and indicate/alert on decomposing.....flesh.....body fluids..... and blood.
Some dogs are also trained to find and indicate/alert on......bone....hair and teeth from a deceased individual.
By broad definition it means a that dog has been trained to find and indicate/alert on decomposing.....flesh.....body fluids..... and blood.
Some dogs are also trained to find and indicate/alert on......bone....hair and teeth from a deceased individual.
by Slamdunc on 14 May 2013 - 20:05
clc29,
You are absolutely correct and that is an excellent explanation of HRD dogs. I train with a SAR person that works scent discrimination trailing dogs and they also do HRD. I have helped her with the detection aspect of her training.
When training a dog to detect an odor, whether it is narcotics, explosives or HRD the physiological response and behavioral changes in the dog when the dog is "in odor" are all very similar. I primarily work with narcotics detection dogs but have assisted Handlers with Human Remains Detection training and explosive detective training. The only difference is the type of odor and the trained final response or alert or indication; passive or aggressive.
Kitkat,
You are absolutely correct! I checked out the NYS K-9 unit and they do train their narcotics dogs for cadaver detection as well. I have never heard of any agency doing this before, I suppose that you learn something new everyday. I am still very intrigued by the use of a dog trained to detect narcotics and other odors purely from the court room testimony aspect. I typically analyze things from a defense attorney's view point and stay current on case law. I'm sure that the NYS K-9 unit has a reasonable way to articulate the alert and explain their dog's behavior and indication of narcotics vs Humans remains or blood.
You are absolutely correct and that is an excellent explanation of HRD dogs. I train with a SAR person that works scent discrimination trailing dogs and they also do HRD. I have helped her with the detection aspect of her training.
When training a dog to detect an odor, whether it is narcotics, explosives or HRD the physiological response and behavioral changes in the dog when the dog is "in odor" are all very similar. I primarily work with narcotics detection dogs but have assisted Handlers with Human Remains Detection training and explosive detective training. The only difference is the type of odor and the trained final response or alert or indication; passive or aggressive.
Kitkat,
You are absolutely correct! I checked out the NYS K-9 unit and they do train their narcotics dogs for cadaver detection as well. I have never heard of any agency doing this before, I suppose that you learn something new everyday. I am still very intrigued by the use of a dog trained to detect narcotics and other odors purely from the court room testimony aspect. I typically analyze things from a defense attorney's view point and stay current on case law. I'm sure that the NYS K-9 unit has a reasonable way to articulate the alert and explain their dog's behavior and indication of narcotics vs Humans remains or blood.
by GSD Lineage on 14 May 2013 - 20:05
The word for find human remains is not the same as narcotics?
by Slamdunc on 14 May 2013 - 20:05
I have no idea what commands they use, they may have different commands and quite possibly different final responses. It is all speculation on my part as I do not know any one that trains dogs for both disciplines.
I will say that everything leading up to the alert will be similar, the "head snap" when the dog is in odor. The change in breathing, the fluttering of the nostrils, the body language changes including the ears and tail will be the same. The posture changes will all be similar and these combined changes in behavior are actually the alert, not the trained response of sitting, downing, staring or scratching. Even if the final response is different the behaviors leading up to the response will be virtually identical. I find detection work and tracking fascinating and this is of particular interest to me.
I will say that everything leading up to the alert will be similar, the "head snap" when the dog is in odor. The change in breathing, the fluttering of the nostrils, the body language changes including the ears and tail will be the same. The posture changes will all be similar and these combined changes in behavior are actually the alert, not the trained response of sitting, downing, staring or scratching. Even if the final response is different the behaviors leading up to the response will be virtually identical. I find detection work and tracking fascinating and this is of particular interest to me.
by kitkat3478 on 14 May 2013 - 21:05
Well that is good that "we all learned something new today".
I have no clue on how any of the detection training is done. I was just proud of my dog that he is doing so good in his job, and of course wanted to share.
I mean are we not all here for a little learning and a little "Shepherd Fellowship".
I have no clue on how any of the detection training is done. I was just proud of my dog that he is doing so good in his job, and of course wanted to share.
I mean are we not all here for a little learning and a little "Shepherd Fellowship".
by Abby Normal on 15 May 2013 - 06:05
Thanks for the explanation on HRD. I thought it was narrower than that....so I learned something new too. Is it possible that those LE depts that train dual purpose limit the scent detection to decomposition only? In a purer sense cadaver, and not to alert to blood? Just musing on Slamduncs question.
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