Epilepsy question - Page 3

Yeah but John, if its someone (like me or Abby) who isn't actively breeding,  we would
not look at stud dog pedigrees in the same way or probably - certainly in my case - with
the same frequency.  So we'd be less likely to find this connection out by accident - and
then it also depends on knowing to make the connection, which sounded like a surprise
to Abby from what she said in her last post. I mean, I knew about the dogs mentioned -
but it didn't occur to me until this thread came up that a current dog with a VA grading
(anywhere !) would necessarily have those particular lines even in tail-female; certainly
not within the six generations its usually possible to check quickly.
I for one can certainly manage an opinion on living with GSDs, dew claws, coatlengths
& colours, some behaviour & training issues - and aspects of the Epilepsy question -
without memorising / knowing 'everything about everything' in regard to bloodlines.

Personally I would like to see a list of affected dogs named. So everyone can be more aware of whats going on their dogs background.

The thought of having a beloved pet being put through that, when with a little information I maybe could have done something to prevent it, just makes it all the worse.
I have a great void in my life at the moment, left by the loss of our beautiful girl, but equally I am terrified of finding another that may end up afflicted with that awful disease.

Surely if its known for fact that a dog has a problem, no matter the breed, it would be acceptable for it to be noted somewhere like here?

We are sorry to hear of the loss of your Beloved  Shamu xxx
  It must be a very sad and difficult time for you, we have never owned a dog that has sufferd from CDRM/DM but have owned a dog that has suffered and died from Epilepsy.
There have been a few discussions on here regarding this health issue and dogs named, but unfortunately not All dogs, the best that you can do is to contact Chris Hazell as suggested.
We wish you well in your search.

  John and Margaret

A list is NOT going to help if the dog got Epilepsy from factors other than genetics! What needs to be shown are the dogs that DID produce it through genetics.
Debby

Once again, the  U of MO is looking for samples from GSD's with epilepsy and unaffected relatives. So far, not much response.

John
There is more to the question as to whether a dog with epilepsy (or any other health issues) in their lines is right for a breeders kennel IMO. What about what is right for the buyer of the puppies produced?  This is where openness of information would be useful to someone buying a puppy, who does not necessarily know enough to dig and 'unearth' this information, because as we all know, most will go to pet homes no matter their background.   

Indeed, it may well be that such published information may reduce the desirability of those puppies, (wrongly perhaps in the breeders eyes) but that should be both the breeders and the buyers choice. There I think we have the crux of the issue and always will have.

It seems to me that too often when breeders do not want to test for something,  do not want to publish the results of tests or admit to something their lines have produced, the phrase 'witch hunt' is trotted out as the reason.  Until there is openness and honesty about the health of this breed we cannot hope to improve it. 

That a high profile dog has these well known epileptics in his lines, and is a VA dog should, in your opinion, not have his name 'spoken aloud' is the first step on that ladder of secrecy IMO.  If the breeders that use him are happy with that, all is well. If the people that want to buy puppies from him knowing that all is well too. If someone didn't know that and now decide not to buy a puppy from him that is how it should be - a buyer making an informed decision.  Maybe some breeders too who are just dazzled by the letters VA......and don't realise, like the OP that German lines DO have issues in some lines too.

Openness and honesty should not be perceived as a bad thing. JMO.

Thank you John and Margaret.  Cdrm is not nice, but it pales into insignificance when you talk out epilepsy, my opinion anyway. What you and your beloved girl went through broke my heart.

Debby, yes your right, I should have been more specific, I was reffering to a genetic epiliepsy list.

Abby Normal, yes yes yes informed choices for prospective owners, exactly, and a freedom of information for those less in the know about lines.

Ali

BUMP.

Debby - agree.  A database would show the pattern of where it is genetic, where it is being produced from lines on more than a one off basis. How else can you establish patterns, just like hip scoring.  

There is no registration system anywhere that provides data on the topic of epilepsy which will of much use to the breeders and owners regarding identifying the producers of this disease together with information about their progeny.  This is a topic which has been continually swept under the carpet and surrounded by a veil of secrecy.

One thing that we can be certain of is that once a dog is identified with epilepsy the problem did not start with that animal’s parents.   Also, we have to find out whether litter mates are affected.  Many cases of epilepsy are found by unknowing breeders, owners and newcomers.  Careful research has to be done on the parental history regarding the occurrence of the disease in an animal’s background and whether, or, not it has transmitted to other litters from either parent and any offspring from those animals.

Question need to be asked as to why a prudent breeder would use the dogs that I named in an earlier post when their identity was already in the public domain.   What was the overriding benefit to the breed that said these dogs were acceptable in a breeding programme?   To have one epileptic producer is bad enough but to have four is beyond my comprehension.

Although all of the dogs that I named are from the UK they have German blood behind them somewhere.   It is also my belief that Germany has epileptics.

Mackenzie